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Testing, Testing - can anyone help please?


Busby
12-02-2010, 21:28
Thanks again for your help 'Winit'

Winit
12-02-2010, 21:20
Good decision

Busby
12-02-2010, 15:00
Well, after much patience with OVH, I'm going to cancel one of my servers and move elsewhere.

Sadly, things have got worse, not better - the connection between my server and the rest of the world is worse than my home ADSL connection. This means that my playout system isn't getting enough 'up' speed to support my streams..



Thanks for your help people

tim2718281
19-01-2010, 22:49
Quote Originally Posted by Busby
Try the loading times between those streams and this one:

http://87.98.169.195:8016
Same sort of time, about 2 seconds.

I'm on BeThere in the UK, by the way.

DigitalDaz
19-01-2010, 22:42
Maybe I'm just lucky but I have been using a Kimsufi C-05G for VOIP now for a few months. I know you'll all think I'm mad but it was started as an experiment with just two users, I have slowly added more, we have about 20 now with maybe up to 10 concurrent calls, we are a sales office so it is very well used and I have absolutely no problems at all.

Busby
19-01-2010, 22:31
Quote Originally Posted by tim2718281
The sound is fine on both addresses; I'm using Linux and Totem Movie Player

However, I'm confused about what you mean by buffering; I though streaming systems were *supposed* to buffer, in order to deliver smooth sound.

When I click on "listen", there's a delay of about three seconds before the sound starts. I've always thought a delay on start of streaming is normal.

Looking at my network traffic graph while listening, there's a cyclic pattern lasting about 12 seconds. The network receive rate peaks at over 500,000 bits a second, for maybe 2 seconds, drops to about 250,000 bits a second for about 8-9 seconds, then falls to zero for about 1-2 seconds. There are occasional departures from this pattern.

Again, that's the kind of thing I normally see when receiving streams.

Maybe the reason some people are getting glitches is because their receiving software is not buffering. Is there a way to specify the start-up buffering delay at the server end?
Hi tim2718281 for your extensive reply..

Yes, your quite correct when you state that it takes a few seconds before play starts whilst the players buffer fills.. However, when the player actually starts, if the stream is unable to keep up with the player the buffer empties, at which time the player pauses to enable it to catch up. This is frequently referred to as 'buffering' although some would argue that this isn't the correct terminology! The end result is the stream keeps being interrupted and its very annoying! Some players, like iTunes for example, have a setting for the buffer, small, medium and large. With the 'large' setting, the time between breaks in the stream can be quite large, giving the impression that things are not too bad..

Try the loading times between those streams and this one:

http://87.98.169.195:8016

tim2718281
19-01-2010, 22:31
OK, I just tried Rhythmbox Music Player.

I set the buffer size to 500,000 bytes.

When I opened the stream, there was a pause of maybe 2 seconds, and the receive rate on the system network graph reached over one megabit per second for about the first five seconds.

tim2718281
19-01-2010, 22:09
Quote Originally Posted by Busby
Server1: 213.186.57.52 Port:8016 [Buffers all the time for me]

Server2: 91.121.143.17 Port:8016 [Seems to depend on the time of day]

Many thanks in advance!
The sound is fine on both addresses; I'm using Linux and Totem Movie Player

However, I'm confused about what you mean by buffering; I though streaming systems were *supposed* to buffer, in order to deliver smooth sound.

When I click on "listen", there's a delay of about three seconds before the sound starts. I've always thought a delay on start of streaming is normal.

Looking at my network traffic graph while listening, there's a cyclic pattern lasting about 12 seconds. The network receive rate peaks at over 500,000 bits a second, for maybe 2 seconds, drops to about 250,000 bits a second for about 8-9 seconds, then falls to zero for about 1-2 seconds. There are occasional departures from this pattern.

Again, that's the kind of thing I normally see when receiving streams.

Maybe the reason some people are getting glitches is because their receiving software is not buffering. Is there a way to specify the start-up buffering delay at the server end?

Busby
19-01-2010, 20:56
Quote Originally Posted by IainK
Are you using the 'low priority' bandwidth or the paid per TB bandwidth? It makes a difference... If anything streaming should be high priority on the routers.
Hi IainK,


On the 91.. server I am using 'low priority' bandwidth, which has been fine for nearly 2 years.. The 213.. server is normal 'paid for' bandwidth, and the general consensus is its by far the worst..

DigitalDaz Re: Testing, Testing - can anyone help please?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first server using VLc started breaking up and just dropped out within a few seconds each time I tried to connect.

The 91. server, only listened for a couple of minutes but it was perfect.

That's from BeThere ADSL in the UK synced at just under 24 meg.
Thanks DigitalDaz, same results as I'm getting here in the Isle of Man on my 8Mbs connection..

I have to say folks you have all been very helpful and its much appreciated - question is, what do I do next - is cogent likely to be any better?

Strange thing is, I have streams on friends ovh servers which are absolutely fine, no buffer and load in a fraction of a second..

IainK
19-01-2010, 20:29
Stream 1 [http://213.186.57.52:8016/]
Connected in 1-2 seconds. Working perfectly. Tuned in for 10:00 mins. Zero buffering.

1 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 69.996 ms 78.093 ms 41.780 ms
2 x0-1.routers.xn3.co.uk (94.23.238.196) 43.308 ms 63.150 ms 33.014 ms
3 94.23.238.254 (94.23.238.254) 39.142 ms 69.843 ms *
4 91.121.131.90 (91.121.131.90) 78.450 ms * *
5 80g.p19-7-6k.routers.chtix.eu (213.186.32.133) 38.799 ms 40.187 ms *
6 p19-4-m1.routers.ovh.net (213.186.32.18) 38.290 ms 75.041 ms 55.000 ms
7 ks30873.kimsufi.com (213.186.57.52) 39.548 ms 53.253 ms 53.197 ms
Stream 2 [http://91.121.143.17:8016/]
Connected in 1-2 seconds. Worked ok. Tuned in for 16:30 mins. Buffered once at 5:00 mins tuned in for around 2 seconds.

1 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 34.910 ms 61.836 ms 34.614 ms
2 x0-1.routers.xn3.co.uk (94.23.238.196) 73.342 ms 62.641 ms 34.424 ms
3 94.23.238.254 (94.23.238.254) 52.499 ms * 34.951 ms
4 94.23.122.138 (94.23.122.138) 94.173 ms 66.875 ms *
5 rbx-43-m1.routers.ovh.net (213.251.191.125) 76.161 ms 53.103 ms 67.554 ms
6 1mix.mixstream.net (91.121.143.17) 40.803 ms 40.035 ms 43.064 ms
I'm with Virgin Media 20mbit in the U.K. and all my traffic is being routed through a VPN running on my OVH server.

DigitalDaz
19-01-2010, 19:57
The first server using VLc started breaking up and just dropped out within a few seconds each time I tried to connect.

The 91. server, only listened for a couple of minutes but it was perfect.

That's from BeThere ADSL in the UK synced at just under 24 meg.

IainK
19-01-2010, 19:48
Are you using the 'low priority' bandwidth or the paid per TB bandwidth? It makes a difference... If anything streaming should be high priority on the routers.

Razakel
19-01-2010, 03:20
Quote Originally Posted by Busby
Thanks Emx - I'll have to start counting..

Wait a minute, 1 stream buffering for 1 listener is too much or am I being unrealistic?
From a budget provider, you kinda are, yeah.

If you need a rock-solid network you should probably try somewhere that offers an SLA on that sort of thing.

Busby
19-01-2010, 01:32
Thanks Emx - I'll have to start counting..

Wait a minute, 1 stream buffering for 1 listener is too much or am I being unrealistic?

Emx
19-01-2010, 00:57
Quote Originally Posted by Busby
Thanks Emx, are you in the UK and are both streams buffering?
Both streams, I'm on cable 1024/512 in south east europe.

Paw-Fox
18-01-2010, 16:12
Oh well, :P

Both working here from BT Broadband at my parent's house. No buffer - using OSX and iTunes

both listened for 5mins with no problems

Busby
18-01-2010, 14:51
Quote Originally Posted by NickW
Server 1 was buffering. Server 2 seems fine.

From a rock solid university connection in the UK.

I get very good speeds (download wise) from my servers in OVH.
Thanks NickW, server 2 is OK at times, and not at others - its OK for me at the moment..

I get good download speeds also, even when buffering is bad..

NickW
18-01-2010, 13:20
Server 1 was buffering. Server 2 seems fine.

From a rock solid university connection in the UK.

I get very good speeds (download wise) from my servers in OVH.

Busby
18-01-2010, 12:52
Thanks Emx, are you in the UK and are both streams buffering?

Emx
18-01-2010, 12:48
Buffers for me :/

Busby
18-01-2010, 01:13
Quote Originally Posted by Paw-Fox
Ah ok - Could possibly need a reboot. If it's windows it's windows where it becomes weird like that as my friend encounter with his gameserver hosted on my host.
lol - if only it was that simple..

Paw-Fox
18-01-2010, 01:09
Ah ok - Could possibly need a reboot. If it's windows it's windows where it becomes weird like that as my friend encounter with his gameserver hosted on my host.

Busby
17-01-2010, 15:39
Quote Originally Posted by Paw-Fox
just to make sure, if you stream at a higher bitrate then your net can handle then everything locks up and goes screwy.. Its like trying to view HD porn on 56k... Not that I watch porn.

Are you streaming from the server to the server or you streaming yourself from your home isp?
The playout system is on the Windows server, with the streams..

Remember, for some, there is no buffering, so it has to be the network if I'm not mistaken..

freshwire
17-01-2010, 05:28
Not that I watch porn.
The earth is flat

Paw-Fox
17-01-2010, 04:03
just to make sure, if you stream at a higher bitrate then your net can handle then everything locks up and goes screwy.. Its like trying to view HD porn on 56k... Not that I watch porn.

Are you streaming from the server to the server or you streaming yourself from your home isp?

yonatan
17-01-2010, 00:03
Quote Originally Posted by Busby
Thanks yonatan..

There are no packet errors showing, and the servers are Windows..
If its windows, i cant really tell

i run on Linux.

Busby
16-01-2010, 20:47
check out in the manager , at the MRTG section, if you might have packet errors.
Thanks yonatan..

There are no packet errors showing, and the servers are Windows..

yonatan
16-01-2010, 19:57
Quote Originally Posted by Busby
Thanks guys - the results are interesting and puzzling at the same time..

Whilst its good to hear that most of you have no buffering on either stream, I cant understand why listeners in the UK, France, Greece, Belgium, several parts of the US, China, Germany are all reporting buffering..

Maybe I will start with my ISP and see if they can trace anything forward.. I noticed last night that the server 91.121.143.17 was fine until 10.00pm - it was like a timed event happening. The stream was then really bad until almost midnight and it settled again..
check out in the manager , at the MRTG section, if you might have packet errors.

if so, contact OVH to investigate where the errors are coming from.


also, on Linux you can run
Code:
ethtool -S eth0
normal output will look like this;
NIC statistics:
tx_packets: 65619471
rx_packets: 39483995
tx_errors: 0
rx_errors: 0

rx_missed: 0
align_errors: 0
tx_single_collisions: 0
tx_multi_collisions: 0
unicast: 39462123
broadcast: 21872
multicast: 0
tx_aborted: 0
tx_underrun: 0


if you see any errors , contact OVH and place this info inside a ticket..

Busby
16-01-2010, 19:44
Thanks guys - the results are interesting and puzzling at the same time..

Whilst its good to hear that most of you have no buffering on either stream, I cant understand why listeners in the UK, France, Greece, Belgium, several parts of the US, China, Germany are all reporting buffering..

Maybe I will start with my ISP and see if they can trace anything forward.. I noticed last night that the server 91.121.143.17 was fine until 10.00pm - it was like a timed event happening. The stream was then really bad until almost midnight and it settled again..

elvis1
16-01-2010, 19:00
Not working properly for me :S. I am in latam ( Argentina). Can you guys please provide me the working radios as I like your music . Yonatan would you provide us yours too please?

rickyday
16-01-2010, 18:20
First stream buffers every 30 secs or so.
Second stream absolutely fine here.

Virgin 50Mb

freshwire
16-01-2010, 17:27
Working good so far.

Busby
16-01-2010, 16:39
Ah, right there may be another issue here..

Some media players, like iTunes for example, have their own built in buffer, so your always listening maybe, 3 seconds behind the stream.. The test will need to done with Media Player or Winamp..

Many thanks for your help

gregoryfenton
16-01-2010, 16:31
Both work fine for me (20Mb virgin broadband)

The first server buffered for 2 seconds before my buffer was 100%, the second server took 3 seconds before 100% full.

Busby
16-01-2010, 16:14
Quote Originally Posted by zimsters
working fine here; 50mbit virgin media in the uk.
Thanks zimsters, that's both servers, right?

Busby
16-01-2010, 16:13
Thank you Yonatan for your extensive reply..

Never had any problems with shoutcast+OVH
Neither had I until 23rd December..

Stream Status: Stream is up at 64 kbps with 428 of 1337 listeners (383 unique)
Listener Peak: 731

Stream Status: Stream is up at 64 kbps with 125 of 1000 listeners (123 unique)
Listener Peak: 690

works like a charm 24/7
My lower bitrate streams are fine; I have 32/128/192/256Kbs streams and its only the two higher ones that buffer.. [I can only dream of those listener numbers btw!]

check your PC, and local connection.
I have 4 computers here and they are all buffering. I have 2 more streams which use the same source server [87.98.173.107:8016] [87.98.169.195:8016] which don't buffer, at the same bit rate..

also, you are streaming at 256Kbps - you must make sure that your broadcasting computer will have at least 512Kbps upstream to hold this type of stream smoothly
( as twice as fast due to overhead + im sure u are doing some surfing on your dj box... )


make sure NOT to run any P2P clients / downloads / uploads while web casting.

Skype is a known bugger ... stay away from it when you are on the radio.
My broadcasting computers, are my OVH servers, so none of the above apply.. I have many reports from listeners all over the world who are reporting buffering..

how much listeners u get on ur machines? ( at best times )
does it buffer for you when the server is populated ? or only while it is empty?

on the hardware side .. check you are not out of RAM , and check that the CPU is not overheating .. that might cause a choppy stream.
My listeners are spread across several streams and servers. None have exceeded their allowance and are connected at 100mbs. Server 213.186.57.52 Port:8016 is a backup and uses less than 10% of allocated bandwidth, and is the worse affected. I don't believe there is a problem with the servers due to the fact that people like yourself report that the streams are fine..

I really do appreciate you taking the time to offer suggestions, but sadly we still don't have a solution..

zimsters
16-01-2010, 12:46
working fine here; 50mbit virgin media in the uk.

yonatan
16-01-2010, 06:57
http://213.186.57.52:8016/ smooth for me.
http://91.121.143.17:8016/ smooth also.

Never had any problems with shoutcast+OVH
here are my radios status atm:

Stream Status: Stream is up at 64 kbps with 428 of 1337 listeners (383 unique)
Listener Peak: 731

Stream Status: Stream is up at 64 kbps with 125 of 1000 listeners (123 unique)
Listener Peak: 690

works like a charm 24/7

this time of the morning, wont see much listeners .. later it will peak at about 600~

check your PC, and local connection.

also, you are streaming at 256Kbps - you must make sure that your broadcasting computer will have at least 512Kbps upstream to hold this type of stream smoothly
( as twice as fast due to overhead + im sure u are doing some surfing on your dj box... )


make sure NOT to run any P2P clients / downloads / uploads while web casting.

Skype is a known bugger ... stay away from it when you are on the radio.

what else can i think of? , you finished your monthly bandwidth quota and pushing the 10Mbit limit? ( kimsufi right? ) ...

how much listeners u get on ur machines? ( at best times )
does it buffer for you when the server is populated ? or only while it is empty?

on the hardware side .. check you are not out of RAM , and check that the CPU is not overheating .. that might cause a choppy stream.


BTW -
why don't u embed your stream into the site?
use this:

Code:
 
 
 
	 
		Radio Stream
	 
 
 
 

http://server:8000/" ref valuetype="ref"> Your browser does not support the ActiveX Windows Media Player


Busby
16-01-2010, 02:58
I have 2 Kimsurfi servers which I use for my Radio Station. I have had one almost 2 years and the other, a backup, for 3 months..

Both servers have been fine until 23rd December when I noticed that my streams were buffering. I thought, and hoped, it would just be a glitch and would sort itself. Sadly it didn't.

After the Christmas break, I raised a support ticket and then proceeded a period of testing with the aid of some listeners, some tracerouts and pings, and some old fashioned listening tests..

Basically, to cut a very long story short, Neil has been very helpful, but I still have 2 servers which are no use for streaming any more. The streams are buffering for me and for my listeners, but not for OVH. In fairness, in some countries, there is no buffer on either server, where in others, one or both buffer..

We seem to have reached the end of the line in that 'the servers are working ok' - for OVH, but not for me, or my listeners..

Fortunately, a friend is letting me use his server [OVH France] to relay my 192 & 256kbs streams, but this can't go on much longer. I really don't want to move because it would involve a lot of work on my part - but I may be left with no choice..

Maybe some of you guys could take a listen for me and report your findings here please:

Server1: 213.186.57.52 Port:8016 [Buffers all the time for me]

Server2: 91.121.143.17 Port:8016 [Seems to depend on the time of day]

Many thanks in advance!