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Why wasn't I told about the new T&C's?


Thelen
10-02-2011, 11:55
"blah blah blah I buy from OVH illegally and I'm unhappy they changed the terms"
or
"blah blah I buy from OVH to support my borderline illegal business and I live in another country with different laws"

or something.

BTW Lemon where does the doubling price of BW fit in? I've never seen that in the contract, and as it is an extra/add-on not part of the core service I'm not even sure it's 'valid' to complain (even though perfectly reasonable).

Ubor
28-01-2011, 17:42
Yeah I would like to chip in my displeasure on this as well. Not in the new terms as they don't effect me but the handling is very poor - especially considering the previous complaints.

Considering the amount of spam that the OVH manager loves to send you I am rather suprised that it was not e-mailed to people.


I doubt OVH could enforce anything which has not been seen by the customer - hence the having to log in before being notified is at best useless.

How about someone from OVH acknowledge that this is a step up from last year but still totally unacceptable and was not the way to do it.


Really at the very least you should be e-mailing. From this thread I do wonder if it is going to take a letter from a solicitor of one of your customers before you start paying attention.

Myatu
05-01-2011, 17:01
Quote Originally Posted by fozl
There are 2 scenarios:

A: In 30 days time this will be the new contract: agree/not.

B: Here's the new contract, you have 30 days to: agree/not.
In case A: I haven't been notified. It simply changed, no word of what, why or how. This happened on 29/09/2010 and 29/12/2010 from the looks of it. On one hand, it still looks like I'm on the old contract in this case - but that can only mean that once renewal comes: "Surprise!! We changed things while you were away! Accept (Yes/No)?".

In case B: It states "at least 30 days before the changes take effect". I can't see anywhere where it says "except if you're on a monthly contract, in which case you will be notified upon renewal" or thereabouts.

And what about the Cloud services, which can either run for 1 day per year, 10 days per year, 100 days, etc? Does each time you archive the cloud server and start it renew the contract? Or can the contract simply change in a month you haven't used any cloud server?

Even T-mobile, O2 and others who use 30-day contracts on some of their services give you a heads up of any changes - ie., a text message or even - gasp - a letter! Vodafone even "grandfathers" the contract from the day you signed up, even if you're on a 30-day "contract", as long as there's no gap in payment.

The point is: don't let existing customers come to any surprises and do as you say you will. Whether these customers pay per day, month or more.

LawsHosting
05-01-2011, 16:23
FWIW, I never got notified about the new (29/12) change, well, once I logged into the manager I did (obviously).

Do you not email your customers about important changes? OVH are on to us if a server is hacked, late payment, crashed, etc.

I only ever log into the manager when I need to renew, sort IPs - so not very often.

fozl
05-01-2011, 12:23
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
Obviously not that crystal clear!

Why, oh why is this so bleeping difficult?
There are 2 scenarios:

A: In 30 days time this will be the new contract: agree/not.

B: Here's the new contract, you have 30 days to: agree/not.

Both versions are 30 days notice, but with B if you're on a 6 month contract for instance, you have 30 days to back out if you'd like, or to put another way you have 30 days notice to commit to the changes, you may choose not to commit.

If you're on a monthly contract, you're rolling it so it's not a change of the contract you're on, but a new contract for the service you're using, and not a change.

Myatu
04-01-2011, 17:23
Quote Originally Posted by fozl

Quote Originally Posted by _Lemon_
This isn't being asked for. It's prior notification to changes in contract (be it t&c OR doubling the price of bandwidth).

Most of the people in this thread complaining have more than one server and would stay with you (probably not out of choice and only to an extent) regardless of what changes you made.

We need contract 30-day notifications.
Yes, in this thread the point is made absolutely crystal.
Obviously not that crystal clear!

GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SERVICES
Version Date: 29-12-10
Why, oh why is this so bleeping difficult?

jonlewi5
05-03-2010, 02:12
Well i believe we have a new winner, "i want fozles baby"

Brilliant

Andy
04-03-2010, 22:24
Sod caturday, tuberculosis made me laugh

jonlewi5
04-03-2010, 18:46
caturday?

made me smile either way

Iray
04-03-2010, 17:05
Indeed, I am glad you have realised that keeping your side of the agreement is just as important.

fozl
04-03-2010, 16:22
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
Acknowledged, good.

So can we trust OVH that there are now internal policies in place to ensure the customers will receive their 30-day notice as outlined in the T&Cs?

And note I do not say "trust" in the lightest sense here as we're standing on very thin ice.

PS.: The website still points to the changed T&Cs.
Yes you can trust that ovh intend to honour our T&C. If there's ever a point at which you feel we have not honoured the T&C then tell us. You have our email address, you have this forum and you have our telephone number.

It's not like we don't inform our customers when we believe that they are in breach of the T&C, (typically we allow 24 hours for them to correct the issue). We aren't shy to be told if you have any issues with your services, our business is basically all about communication afterall.

Myatu
04-03-2010, 15:19
Quote Originally Posted by _Lemon_
We need contract 30-day notifications.
Quote Originally Posted by fozle
Yes, in this thread the point is made absolutely crystal.
Acknowledged, good.

So can we trust OVH that there are now internal policies in place to ensure the customers will receive their 30-day notice as outlined in the T&Cs?

And note I do not say "trust" in the lightest sense here as we're standing on very thin ice.

PS.: The website still points to the changed T&Cs.

stugster
04-03-2010, 13:48
Tell you what... I'm impressed that you guys at OVH have dealt with this.

I'm a bit disappointed that it was changed in the first place without working in accordance with your own contractual obligations, but at least you've acknowledged this and made reasonable steps to rectify.

Maybe there's hope yet for us!


P.S. Glad tuberculosis is still there

fozl
04-03-2010, 11:08
Quote Originally Posted by _Lemon_
This isn't being asked for. It's prior notification to changes in contract (be it t&c OR doubling the price of bandwidth).

Most of the people in this thread complaining have more than one server and would stay with you (probably not out of choice and only to an extent) regardless of what changes you made.

We need contract 30-day notifications.
Yes, in this thread the point is made absolutely crystal.

fozl
04-03-2010, 11:06
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
Are you? From the e-mail I got, Oles doesn't seem to be keen on correcting this issue really and well, "3 hours" should obviously be taken with a huge grain of salt. No doubt you understand my skepticism at this point.
The contract was reverted in the order process within three hours as said, the version in the footer of our website is indeed still the same, so I'll get that reverted too.

We strive to stay on the good terms with our customers, so if you catch us making an error or spot a bug or just have an idea you'd like to see us implement in future, we appreciate you calling us on it.

_Lemon_
04-03-2010, 10:45
Quote Originally Posted by Neil
We are reverting to the old T&C's, so you do not need to worry.
This isn't being asked for. It's prior notification to changes in contract (be it t&c OR doubling the price of bandwidth).

Most of the people in this thread complaining have more than one server and would stay with you (probably not out of choice and only to an extent) regardless of what changes you made.

We need contract 30-day notifications.

Myatu
04-03-2010, 10:07
Quote Originally Posted by Neil
We are reverting to the old T&C's
Are you? From the e-mail I got, Oles doesn't seem to be keen on correcting this issue really and well, "3 hours" should obviously be taken with a huge grain of salt. No doubt you understand my skepticism at this point.

Rilly
03-03-2010, 17:17
phew. Thanks Neil

Neil
03-03-2010, 17:11
Quote Originally Posted by Rilly
Ok, so this is the first time I'm seeing the change in the T&C (as my understanding was that all changes had to be communicated, not just done and hope someone reads it every week). I renewed my servers prior to the change, and I run an IRC xdcc and eggdrop service.... How do I proceed to get approval? You said everyone that would have been impacted was notified - well.. i wasn't.. though I don't know how you would have known to anyway.

My renewal isn't up til May, 2010 so i wouldn't have been notified of the change until I renewed.

Under Section 5.4, it says i need approval, but doesn't say how to obtain it
You are not running Camfrog, this update in the T&C's was about Camfrog only and a minor change to the notification emails.

We are reverting to the old T&C's, so you do not need to worry. Regarding IRC etc, you just need to unblock the port in the OVH Manager.

Rilly
03-03-2010, 16:50
Ok, so this is the first time I'm seeing the change in the T&C (as my understanding was that all changes had to be communicated, not just done and hope someone reads it every week). I renewed my servers prior to the change, and I run an IRC xdcc and eggdrop service.... How do I proceed to get approval? You said everyone that would have been impacted was notified - well.. i wasn't.. though I don't know how you would have known to anyway.

My renewal isn't up til May, 2010 so i wouldn't have been notified of the change until I renewed.

Under Section 5.4, it says i need approval, but doesn't say how to obtain it

fozl
03-03-2010, 16:21
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
Well, posts may not be removed, but some (harmless) tags are. Re-adding.

Edit: And no, I didn't re-add "TB". Smart aleck; I've saved every post to PDF!
Well to be fair "tuberculosis, void and 4chan" did seem a rather puzzling choice of tags.

RapidSpeeds
03-03-2010, 16:17
Quote Originally Posted by oles@ovh.net
oles@ovh.net a écrit:
>> "Special Conditions for Website Hosting on a Dedicated Server" have been
>> changed on the 19th of February 2010

>
> !?
>
> give me 3 hours ...


it will be removed. sorry for confusion !
What do you mean removed? The t&c's will revert back to what they were before?

oles@ovh.net
03-03-2010, 16:06
oles@ovh.net a écrit:
>> "Special Conditions for Website Hosting on a Dedicated Server" have been
>> changed on the 19th of February 2010

>
> !?
>
> give me 3 hours ...


it will be removed. sorry for confusion !


oles@ovh.net
03-03-2010, 16:02
> "Special Conditions for Website Hosting on a Dedicated Server" have been
> changed on the 19th of February 2010


!?

give me 3 hours ...


IainK
03-03-2010, 15:15
I for one would like some confirmation, once and for all, that changes in Terms & Conditions will be handled better in future.

All I'm suggesting is that when you update the terms and conditions you send each customer with a nichandle affected an e-mail containing a link to the new terms. Even if you did not give advance notice, but simply informed us when the changes took place, it would be better than the way things are getting handled right now.

Don't get me wrong I totally understand that you must amend the terms from time to time but it is stated that we will be contacted in advance of such a change. I don't recall a single time I have been emailed in regards to this in the last couple of years.

I'll leave it at one simple point: how am I meant to enforce the new terms if the first time I am hearing about them I am forced to agree to them? What if I knowingly have a client that is no longer valid to host however suddenly have no choice but to cut them off without advance notice. I'll likely loose out on profit because of this and possibly have bad press about my company.

Giving us this notice in plenty of advance allows us to plan for any changes and implement them with our own customers/services giving them the notice they deserve.

Myatu
03-03-2010, 15:07
So anyway, before we veer off from the topic too far and it starts collecting dust...

What's OVH going to do about this? So far I haven't heard anything promising other than a meager excuse. I'm not allowing OVH to ignore this issue.

PS.: I blame the UK staff as much as the French staff - they all work for OVH and they need to sort this out together. It's too easy to point fingers and say "It's their fault, we can't do anything about it". Besides, someone translated the French T&Cs to English, so someone knew about the changes and didn't tell us.

Myatu
03-03-2010, 14:52
Quote Originally Posted by jonlewi5
One question, why in the tags for this thread is 4chan in there? hahaha
EDIT
Gone now....
Well, posts may not be removed, but some (harmless) tags are. Re-adding.

Edit: And no, I didn't re-add "TB". Smart aleck; I've saved every post to PDF!

jonlewi5
03-03-2010, 13:28
One question, why in the tags for this thread is 4chan in there? hahaha
EDIT
Gone now....

_Lemon_
03-03-2010, 13:15
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
otherwise it looks like just attacks on OVH and its staff just for the hell of it.
Nobody is attacking anybody. The UK support staff are doing a great job. The problem is OVH hq in France who don't communicate with their UK customers enough.

stugster
03-03-2010, 11:48
Quote Originally Posted by Neil
We didn't remove it, we have not removed anything. You posted it in another thread, http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?p=28453#post28453
Apologies for my gross stupidity!

rickyday
03-03-2010, 10:35
Come on guys pay attention to at least where you are posting, otherwise it looks like just attacks on OVH and its staff just for the hell of it.

Lets not get excited and start a OVH removing posts conspiracy.

yatesco
03-03-2010, 09:56
Quote Originally Posted by Neil
We didn't remove it, we have not removed anything. You posted it in another thread, http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?p=28453#post28453
Ooops - yep, that was where I read it Well spotted Neil.

Neil
03-03-2010, 09:55
Quote Originally Posted by stugster
Yes, I did

Just a brief synopsis of damages that could be due as a result of a mis-sold product in the UK.
We didn't remove it, we have not removed anything. You posted it in another thread, http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?p=28453#post28453

Iray
03-03-2010, 09:20
Quote Originally Posted by stugster
Interesting that my post was removed.
Wow. Speechless.

If this is the case.. then I am beginning to see a grey ovh... wouldn't be surprised if a mod posted a 'just stfu and accept it' and closed the thread.

IainK
03-03-2010, 08:54
Ahh yes that post. I thought that was very valid. Not impressed at removal of posts without reasonable cause. There was no abusive content or anything in there that warranted a removal imo.

stugster
03-03-2010, 08:52
Yes, I did

Just a brief synopsis of damages that could be due as a result of a mis-sold product in the UK.

IainK
03-03-2010, 08:51
I didn't even have a chance to read the new contract. When your server is suspended and you have clients complaining there's no time to read just time to get that box back up asap.

I'm getting a copy of an older contract and going to compare them. I will post any major differences I can find.

yatesco
03-03-2010, 08:44
Quote Originally Posted by stugster
Interesting that my post was removed.
Yeah - didn't you post one about the legalities of the whole thing? I thought I read that during my re-install of the server at 4am.

On a side note - lesson of the day is: when you suffer from insomnia, 2am really isn't a good time to think 'ah stuff trying to sleep, I will go and upgrade the servers' - very bad things will happen. Second lesson of the day: backing up virtual machine images (with the help of proxmox) and /etc is a *really* good idea

IainK
03-03-2010, 08:39
Quote Originally Posted by stugster
Interesting that my post was removed.
which post was that stu?

stugster
03-03-2010, 08:17
Interesting that my post was removed.

jibbajabba
03-03-2010, 02:17
ummm i'm confused, i run a triviabot, what do i need to do?

RapidSpeeds
03-03-2010, 01:06
Quote Originally Posted by roger198
Sadly we have seen all this before with Dedibox.fr which I assume OVH are resellers for
OVH are not resellers for Dedibox - They are a company that own their own private network, OVH are much bigger than dedibox and they are the biggest provider in france for domain names, and to my knowledge, still have 70,000+ servers which is a considerable amount more than dedibox.

RapidSpeeds
03-03-2010, 00:45
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
You're avoiding the issue at hand here.

Obviously I understand that it was security related and that the changes were to protect customers in general. And had you sent us an e-mail and/or posted a notice on the website on the day or shortly before the T&Cs were changed, along with an explanation of why it couldn't wait the agreed 30 days, then I'm sure the overall response would have been a bit more forgiving.

But the fact is that you had more than 30 days time (since at least November 2009) to change the T&Cs and inform the UK customers about it. This wasn't something that was dropped in your lap in February 2010. Even if you were able to somehow justify that, you still remained silent after the T&Cs were changed. There's absolutely no reason for why you haven't informed us, especially when you're under a contractual obligation to inform us.

I could have simply ticked the "I agree" box and continued the renewal, not looking back on this again. And some did indeed choose to do that, as evident from earlier posts. But why should we let you flaunt your own obligations like that, contractual ones at that? Next time it could be something more serious than just inserting "protective measures" in the T&Cs. And then what, should we just let it slide again?
Well said Myatu - always on the ball - I could safely say every post you make, you speak for me as well.

roger198
02-03-2010, 23:48
Sadly we have seen all this before with Dedibox.fr which I assume OVH are resellers for, I was with a company called Bestofdata for about a year, just hosted a few web sites nothing special and suddenly Dedibox.fr decided they did not wish to deal with that company as was in the US and everybody had there server pulled off after a bit of moaning they decided to open the servers up for 2 hours to get our data off, it seemed that then you had to be in France to use that company's servers and as a few from the US were signed up via webhostingtalk as a lot were in the US that was enough to turn everybodys server off there were a few instances like above such as IRC and file sharing
problems before that just the same. It would be a shame if it happened again as I hoped that all this in in the past as OI have a lot of data with OVH and do not want to go through doing all that again.

_Lemon_
02-03-2010, 23:17
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
You're avoiding the issue at hand here.

Obviously I understand that it was security related and that the changes were to protect customers in general. And had you sent us an e-mail and/or posted a notice on the website on the day or shortly before the T&Cs were changed, along with an explanation of why it couldn't wait the agreed 30 days, then I'm sure the overall response would have been a bit more forgiving.
I agree with Myatu here and particularly with this little bit.

I am an existing customer with hundreds of servers you, I am not about to leave over a contract change. Hell, I stayed after you doubled the price of bandwidth without notifying me. Actually, I stayed even after you knocked down "unlimited" bandwidth on the older servers to low priority.

I do not want to wake up tomorrow morning and find that you've doubled the server rental prices. We NEED to know about these things.

Myatu
02-03-2010, 22:59
Quote Originally Posted by Neil
I am sorry that you feel like that, but I hope you understand the change in the T&C is for a specific issue which was Camfrog. (I am aware you said that was not the point, but in this case it really was ). Because of this case, those that have been affected by the short notice change have been compensated.
You're avoiding the issue at hand here.

Obviously I understand that it was security related and that the changes were to protect customers in general. And had you sent us an e-mail and/or posted a notice on the website on the day or shortly before the T&Cs were changed, along with an explanation of why it couldn't wait the agreed 30 days, then I'm sure the overall response would have been a bit more forgiving.

But the fact is that you had more than 30 days time (since at least November 2009) to change the T&Cs and inform the UK customers about it. This wasn't something that was dropped in your lap in February 2010. Even if you were able to somehow justify that, you still remained silent after the T&Cs were changed. There's absolutely no reason for why you haven't informed us, especially when you're under a contractual obligation to inform us.

I could have simply ticked the "I agree" box and continued the renewal, not looking back on this again. And some did indeed choose to do that, as evident from earlier posts. But why should we let you flaunt your own obligations like that, contractual ones at that? Next time it could be something more serious than just inserting "protective measures" in the T&Cs. And then what, should we just let it slide again?

Iray
02-03-2010, 22:19
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
I have my obligation to comply with your T&Cs, and I expect you to do the same - we both agreed to that!

Had I failed to hold up my end of that bargain, then I would have lost my server and the money invested in it. But when you fail to do so, it is perfectly justifiable? I think not!

A breach of contract is a breach of contract, no matter how you try to justify it or distort the facts.

It's insult after insult here. Unbelievable.
Absolutely. OVH have CLEARLY broken their own Terms and Conditions. Something needs to be done..
A complaint to Ombudsman or Trading standards is probably a start! I'm sure there are others.

I am frustrated with this along with other things.. when A Company breaks its own Terms, thats when it has gone too far. It seems the situation gets even worse when its customers do nothing about it.

Neil
02-03-2010, 20:54
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
I have my obligation to comply with your T&Cs, and I expect you to do the same - we both agreed to that!

Had I failed to hold up my end of that bargain, then I would have lost my server and the money invested in it. But when you fail to do so, it is perfectly justifiable? I think not!

A breach of contract is a breach of contract, no matter how you try to justify it or distort the facts.

It's insult after insult here. Unbelievable.
I am sorry that you feel like that, but I hope you understand the change in the T&C is for a specific issue which was Camfrog. (I am aware you said that was not the point, but in this case it really was ). Because of this case, those that have been affected by the short notice change have been compensated.

Myatu
02-03-2010, 18:10
I have my obligation to comply with your T&Cs, and I expect you to do the same - we both agreed to that!

Had I failed to hold up my end of that bargain, then I would have lost my server and the money invested in it. But when you fail to do so, it is perfectly justifiable? I think not!

A breach of contract is a breach of contract, no matter how you try to justify it or distort the facts.

It's insult after insult here. Unbelievable.

yonatan
02-03-2010, 18:09
Quote Originally Posted by Neil
IRC and other chatroom programs are acceptable, remember you need to unblock the IRC Port in the OVH Manager to run them.

Although I would recommend with botnets to check first because of the spam they can cause, to verify it is legitimate.
great! thank you for clearing this topic for us.

from my experience, no such thing as a legitimate botnet ... . maybe SETI ... or a harmless trivia eggdrop ( usually would run those from home no? )

my question was about legit chat rooms , don't have any at the moment, but you can never be to prepared for such requests.


Thank you.

Neil
02-03-2010, 17:58
Quote Originally Posted by inet
i dont mean to be rude or butt in, but do i understand this correct:

so any type of irc bot needs approval now?...
Hi

You should clarify with us first, the type of IRC Bot and its purpose.

inet
02-03-2010, 17:56
i dont mean to be rude or butt in, but do i understand this correct:

so any type of irc bot needs approval now?...

Neil
02-03-2010, 17:54
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
I don't care about when you started blocking camfrog -- or that it involves camfrog in general! That's completely beside the point.

What I DO care about the fact that OVH is breaking its own contracts and then lies about it; For heaven's sake, you just admitted you knew about these changes (yes, I read that "Myatu, you are right the French..." portion just before it was removed), yet you haven't informed any of us! Why not?!
I am sorry but we have not lied about it, we just had to implement it rather rapidly. It was not what we wanted to do, but it had to be done.

Myatu
02-03-2010, 17:49
Quote Originally Posted by Neil
However we did not block camfrog until last week. I have been personally dealing with the compensation, you can check several offer subsidiaries and it was only implemented last week as well.
I don't care about when you started blocking camfrog -- or that it involves camfrog in general! That's completely beside the point.

What I DO care about the fact that OVH is breaking its own contracts and then lies about it; For heaven's sake, you just admitted you knew about these changes (yes, I read that "Myatu, you are right the French..." portion just before it was removed), yet you haven't informed any of us! Why not?!

stugster
02-03-2010, 17:38
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
"Several reminders" but you have removed exactly how many "several" is. What's "several"?
More than 2. Less than 3 and you've got a case against them.

Neil
02-03-2010, 17:36
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
You are LYING through your teeth!

I just checked, and the French T&Cs for dedicated servers had this change regarding Camfrog implemented in November 2009. The UK office had at least that much time to notify its customers, so it couldn't have been that imperative that you were unable to wait 30 days to implement these changes (as you are contractually obligated to do regardless!).

Now, I've just spent some time digging through the old and new T&Cs, and you've also changed something else that you haven't told us:

Section 7, Term and Termination

May 2008 version:



February 2010 version:



It now states "Several reminders" but you have removed exactly how many "several" is. What's "several"?

Also, why isn't "the/that State" from Section 5.5 explained in Section 1? It could be interpreted as "US State" or "Country of Residence/Establishment" - two very different things, but no clarification.

Oh, my blood is boiling!!!
However we did not block camfrog until last week. I have been personally dealing with the compensation, you can check several offer subsidiaries and it was only implemented last week as well.

Regarding:

It now states "Several reminders" but you have removed exactly how many "several" is. What's "several"?
This is because a feature which customers have been requesting is in development, no date yet.

inet
02-03-2010, 17:31
so any type of irc bot needs approval now?... do i understand this correct. hmmm!

Myatu
02-03-2010, 17:28
Quote Originally Posted by Neil
It was decided to then block camfrog usage, however if we had waited then it would of been at least 30 days more of this damaging and harmful actions.
You are LYING through your teeth!

I just checked, and the French T&Cs for dedicated servers had this change regarding Camfrog implemented in November 2009. The UK office had at least that much time to notify its customers, so it couldn't have been that imperative that you were unable to wait 30 days to implement these changes (as you are contractually obligated to do regardless!).

Now, I've just spent some time digging through the old and new T&Cs, and you've also changed something else that you haven't told us:

Section 7, Term and Termination

May 2008 version:

7.1 Notwithstanding Condition 11.1 of the General Conditions, the Supplier shall send the Customer at least 6 reminders on the following dates:
(a) 1st reminder 60 days before Expiry Date;
(b) 2nd reminder 30 days before Expiry Date;
(c) 3rd reminder 15 days before Expiry Date;
(d) 4th reminder 7 days before Expiry Date;
(e) 5th reminder 3 days before Expiry Date.
February 2010 version:

7.1 Notwithstanding Condition 11.1 of the General Conditions, the Supplier shall send the Customer several reminders.
It now states "Several reminders" but you have removed exactly how many "several" is. What's "several"?

Also, why isn't "the/that State" from Section 5.5 explained in Section 1? It could be interpreted as "US State" or "Country of Residence/Establishment" - two very different things, but no clarification.

Oh, my blood is boiling!!!

Neil
02-03-2010, 17:20
Quote Originally Posted by yonatan
hang on a moment, the camfrog part i get, a bit of google gave the answers - Yuck!


but IRC ? , well i know IRC is used for botnets, but say it is a legit network or even a private network for a website chatroom .. is that banned too?

how do we get "prior approval of the Supplier" for a chatroom on a website for example?
do i need to email you guys with the URL ?
i also do shared hosting, ill include this in the TOS immediately no problem, but say a client installs it ( we do run audits on all accounts from time to time ) , can we contact you and get approval after he installs the chat room?
or the approval needs to come prior to the installation ? you know we can't guess what the next client has in mind for a website ...

I hope we can clear this up a bit, because i really don't want a server getting suspended for one little java / php chatroom software on one silly domain that has no hits on it on a small account.

Please explain yourself better, do I need now to hunt out accounts with phpchat / java(if any) and get rid of them? / contact you and request approval about them?
IRC and other chatroom programs are acceptable, remember you need to unblock the IRC Port in the OVH Manager to run them.

Although I would recommend with botnets to check first because of the spam they can cause, to verify it is legitimate.

yonatan
02-03-2010, 17:08
hang on a moment, the camfrog part i get, a bit of google gave the answers - Yuck!


but IRC ? , well i know IRC is used for botnets, but say it is a legit network or even a private network for a website chatroom .. is that banned too?

how do we get "prior approval of the Supplier" for a chatroom on a website for example?
do i need to email you guys with the URL ?
i also do shared hosting, ill include this in the TOS immediately no problem, but say a client installs it ( we do run audits on all accounts from time to time ) , can we contact you and get approval after he installs the chat room?
or the approval needs to come prior to the installation ? you know we can't guess what the next client has in mind for a website ...

I hope we can clear this up a bit, because i really don't want a server getting suspended for one little java / php chatroom software on one silly domain that has no hits on it on a small account.

Please explain yourself better, do I need now to hunt out accounts with phpchat / java(if any) and get rid of them? / contact you and request approval about them?

Neil
02-03-2010, 16:44
Hi

Due to the fast reactions being required we had to update our Terms and Conditions without 30 days notice, those servers that have been affected have been contacted and compensation has been applied. We would like to apologise for this but only a very small amount of customers running Camfrog were affected by the amendment below:

5.4 For security reasons, the operation of Internet Relay Chat services from the Website (including without limitation bots, proxy, bouncer, etc.), Camfrog services, requires the prior approval of the Supplier, which may be refused in the Supplier’s absolute discretion.

5.5 In so far as OVH is susceptible to receiving notifications of illicit use of an IP address attributed to a Customer, said Customer will be assessed according to the law applicable to the location of the Customer and OVH can offer the Customer an IP address corresponding to the State to which they are established and/or to which the Customer must move their service. The Customer is therefore required, when using an IP address corresponding to a particular State, to comply with all laws and regulations of that State. In the case where OVH receives notification stating the violation by the Customer of the applicable law of the State for their corresponding IP address, the Customer must take all necessary measures to cease the violation in question. Otherwise, OVH reserves the right to suspend service.
As some of you are aware OVH has hosted Camfrog servers in the past but this has now changed due to the vulnerabilities in Camfrog and the general culture associated with it. Servers have known to be hacked and frequently attacked, this means we needed to take strict measures on these servers, to protect the majority of our customers from these damaging attacks.

It was decided to then block camfrog usage, however if we had waited then it would of been at least 30 days more of this damaging and harmful actions.

stugster
02-03-2010, 16:15
Let me know what you all intend. I'd be interested in chucking some capital into it.

rickyday
02-03-2010, 16:07
Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
Well unclebob, i'm currently doing the same - maybe we should have a chat
Gbit please

Real GBit as well please lol not EG Gbit

Love the tags for this thread lol

RapidSpeeds
02-03-2010, 15:19
Quote Originally Posted by unclebob
Enough for a few years of 100mbit.
Well unclebob, i'm currently doing the same - maybe we should have a chat

RapidSpeeds
02-03-2010, 15:18
Quote Originally Posted by Andy
Anyone notice the lack of OVH responses AGAIN?
What can they possibly say? They know they are in the wrong, it's breaking the law.

BenB
02-03-2010, 13:47
Quote Originally Posted by Andy
Anyone notice the lack of OVH responses AGAIN?
Maybe they dont have a good enough answer , breaking your own T&C's is just ridiculous.

stugster
02-03-2010, 13:12
It's things like this issue that have (unfortunately) made us make the decision not to migrate all our servers to OVH. In my opinion, it seems it's one free test server too many.

Andy
02-03-2010, 12:52
Anyone notice the lack of OVH responses AGAIN?

stugster
02-03-2010, 12:51
ohtele.com - 1000 euro per month, 1gbit line to any europoean city apparently.

I looked into doing this, but for the expenses, it's not worth it

unclebob
02-03-2010, 12:45
Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
How much you got saved?
Enough for a few years of 100mbit.

RapidSpeeds
02-03-2010, 12:32
Quote Originally Posted by unclebob
What we should do is sidestep the OVH end-user "experience" and simply buy OVH/chtix transit and interconnect in London. Anyone interested in setting up something like this?
How much you got saved?

unclebob
02-03-2010, 12:09
Quote Originally Posted by Razakel
You'd still need colocation, though, and it'd probably work out more expensive.
More expensive than OVH, but it'd be very cheap for London. Last time I checked transit in London was about £5 per megabit.

Razakel
02-03-2010, 12:02
Quote Originally Posted by unclebob
What we should do is sidestep the OVH end-user "experience" and simply buy OVH/chtix transit and interconnect in London. Anyone interested in setting up something like this?
You'd still need colocation, though, and it'd probably work out more expensive.

unclebob
02-03-2010, 11:59
What we should do is sidestep the OVH end-user "experience" and simply buy OVH/chtix transit and interconnect in London. Anyone interested in setting up something like this?

derchris
02-03-2010, 11:50
I noticed it when renewing my server yesterday.
But was anybody able to find the changes?

And I agree with email notification.
You are able to send our your Newsletter, so there is no step back on saying you are not able to send notifications on T&C changes.

RapidSpeeds
02-03-2010, 10:41
I actually noticed this last week, but much like most of you, have came to terms with the fact ovh don't care about telling us anything.

One thing I will say however, it's not the UK staff's fault, this problem lies on the French side of things, lack of communication, and willingness to communicate with others who speak a different language, yet they are more than happy to take our money - I guarantee you the t&c has not changed for French customers, and if it has, you can bet they were informed.

I just can't wait to see them try this stunt in America

yatesco
02-03-2010, 10:20
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
Ugh... You know what, sod it! I gave you the benefit of doubt, but you consistently disregard your customers and I'm not willing to take that.
I think a lot of people are feeling this. OVH have some excellent hardware at very low prices. Or at least they did, once you start adding in setup costs and professional services etc. they actually aren't that cheap anymore. Add onto that the number of hours you spend getting their offerings working (virtual mac anyone?) it really isn't very cheap at all.

The other killer feature for OVH is the amount of bandwidth, but read these forums and it doesn't really turn out to be true. When I came across OVH I thought 'this is too good to be true', so I ordered a server which had a high number in the 'available in 1 hour' and days later it arrived That saying 'if it is too good to be true then it is' has a ring of truth around here.

And the sad thing is, I don't think you even care as I'm sure you'll sucker someone else in to milk.
Myatu, as I have said before, the only reason I have made it this far with OVH is because of your excellent, expert and very well written forum and blog posts. I am sure a lot of people wouldn't have managed to get as far with OVH if it weren't for you. OVH would be insane if they didn't do everything in their power to appease you as the support you provide far exceeds theirs.

Someday soon somebody is going to get serious and start challenging OVH in the court. Me, I am moving my business elsewhere (or rather will do once I finish configuring the new server).

Euan
02-03-2010, 09:53
What did they change?

turbanator
02-03-2010, 09:24
Quote Originally Posted by Nettus
From my understanding companys that change their t&c have to inform all customers about the change,
lol what do u think he is angry abt and that big red post is abt

Nettus
02-03-2010, 09:23
From my understanding companys that change their t&c have to inform all customers about the change,

MicroChip123
02-03-2010, 07:54
Whats New?

Could I have a copy of the old one so i can compare it to the old one?

Myatu
02-03-2010, 02:57
Can someone from OVH explain to me, or rather to its CUSTOMERS, why the "Special Conditions for Website Hosting on a Dedicated Server" have been changed on the 19th of February 2010 without any prior notice whatsoever?

And please do not give me a canned response of "you have the option to decline the new T&Cs during renewal" (which [the renewal] in my case was accidentally on the expiration day itself, so I pretty much had no choice to accept!). Your very own T&Cs state:

"The Supplier shall be entitled to amend the Conditions at any time by giving notice to the Customer at least 30 days before the changes take effect, such notice to be given by email or by notification on the Supplier’s website"

I haven't seen any such notice on the website nor have I received any e-mails stating such (despite that you have 2 different e-mail addresses on file, each with different spam filters [one of which specifically has OVH whitelisted] and while I'm receiving other e-mails from OVH on both said accounts).

I haven't even been told what the changes are! Ugh... You know what, sod it! I gave you the benefit of doubt, but you consistently disregard your customers and I'm not willing to take that. And the sad thing is, I don't think you even care as I'm sure you'll sucker someone else in to milk.