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kimsufi OVH.FR vs OVH.CO.UK (Bandwidth)


Thelen
10-06-2010, 00:50
Quote Originally Posted by RapidSeeds
You should not equate high usage with abuse. Customers use unmetered services because they actually paid money for that service.
Indeed and I didn't say that. I said, it would just cut down on the extreme high bandwidth users that ARE abusing it. Whereas, what you are implying I said was "it would just cut down on the extreme high bandwidth users" full stop.

Quote Originally Posted by _Lemon_
I agree -- you can't make sweeping judgements about OVH's customers and only OVH will know the truth so it will always be speculation (on whether it is legitimately used or not).

What I do disagree with is that no they do not pay. £19.99/month for a full 100Mbps is unrealistic and not going to happen.

Although they are already doing some stuff, I had a Kimsufi L server that was put into traffic mode (it was given 4TB). Then trying to switch it back a month later I was informed that this was not an option (it's a missing option in the manager).

Switching customers over and not saying a word on the matter is definitely NOT the way to go about it.
Perhaps I should have said "extreme high users, especially the subset who abuse the unmetered nature and know they aren't paying for unlimited 33TB/month."

As for only OVH knowing, well that plainly ain't true, you can get tonnes of information from various places, and then use your brain

As I said before, the problem is that OVH only really wanted EU customers, and therefore *could* provide unmetered but only if most of the traffic is to EU and their peering. But what happened is people from all over the world ordering them and doing most of their traffic outside of EU. That caused 2 problems:
1. OVH external transit usage went waaaay up
2. More and more people found value, and started a downwards spiral of more and more customers, which means more and more transit

_Lemon_
09-06-2010, 14:39
Quote Originally Posted by RapidSeeds
You should not equate high usage with abuse. Customers use unmetered services because they actually paid money for that service.
I agree -- you can't make sweeping judgements about OVH's customers and only OVH will know the truth so it will always be speculation (on whether it is legitimately used or not).

What I do disagree with is that no they do not pay. £19.99/month for a full 100Mbps is unrealistic and not going to happen.

Although they are already doing some stuff, I had a Kimsufi L server that was put into traffic mode (it was given 4TB). Then trying to switch it back a month later I was informed that this was not an option (it's a missing option in the manager).

Switching customers over and not saying a word on the matter is definitely NOT the way to go about it.

RapidSeeds
09-06-2010, 11:46
Quote Originally Posted by Thelen
it would just cut down on the extreme high bandwidth users that ARE abusing it.
You should not equate high usage with abuse. Customers use unmetered services because they actually paid money for that service.

Thelen
09-06-2010, 03:38
Quote Originally Posted by ig0r
If OVH starts pulling the plug on older servers - they lose reputation and customers faith imho - as the renter of one of those old "grandfathered" fully unmetered servers that does about 300gb/mo bw (and never massive or long bursts of data) , just because I have it doesnt mean Im going to abuse it. I dont need unmetered - but thats what I signed up for - in case any of my projects suddenly need the capacity for extra bw.

Even though they have the "get out of jail free" clause in the contracts - doesnt mean they should use it and dishonour previous standing agreements.

For what I pay now - I could get a metered server from LW with better routing and never come close to the bw limit - I dont simply because Ive had this server a long time, Im happy with it being at OVH - call it OVH loyalty in respect of this server. The last thing OVH wants to do is alienate existing long term customers. If they suddenly change the agreement - they would stand to upset a huge amount of non abusing older customers...
1. That is true, but they have to choose between their old customers and their new customers. They can't make both happy, clearly in this case they are picking the old ones. There are a million threads about slow FTP to OVH, so how is that not damaging to customer faith and satisfaction?

2. I understand the need for unmetered in terms of having capacity if you ever need it, but I'm not talking about 300GB here or there. The vast majority of the traffic done on these unmetered boxes is for torrenting, the next highest is CDN/streaming/filehosting, and THEN maybe 5% for normal websites.

3. I'm not saying you are abusing, but if you only use 300GB clearly you aren't. I was talking about those that use 90Mbit 24/7 or 30TB, 100x what you use.

4. If they changed the old plans to no longer be unmetered, but instead to current reasonable limits (ie 3TB), it would NOT affect you, or any other long term customer with reasonable usage, it would just cut down on the extreme high bandwidth users that ARE abusing it.

At the end of the day, there are many providers moving away from OVH who are/were long term customers, all because of the degradation in the network caused by abusive users.

Oh, and as for being loyal to OVH... Paying more for an inferior service isn't loyalty, it's stupidity :P

ig0r
07-06-2010, 18:32
I don't understand, why are you keeping all these old plans grandfathered? Your contract does not, from what I can tell, stipulate that servers can be kept on plans indefinitely...
If OVH starts pulling the plug on older servers - they lose reputation and customers faith imho - as the renter of one of those old "grandfathered" fully unmetered servers that does about 300gb/mo bw (and never massive or long bursts of data) , just because I have it doesnt mean Im going to abuse it. I dont need unmetered - but thats what I signed up for - in case any of my projects suddenly need the capacity for extra bw.

Even though they have the "get out of jail free" clause in the contracts - doesnt mean they should use it and dishonour previous standing agreements.

For what I pay now - I could get a metered server from LW with better routing and never come close to the bw limit - I dont simply because Ive had this server a long time, Im happy with it being at OVH - call it OVH loyalty in respect of this server. The last thing OVH wants to do is alienate existing long term customers. If they suddenly change the agreement - they would stand to upset a huge amount of non abusing older customers...

Thelen
06-06-2010, 07:59
Way to duck the real issue there

But I do understand, however it isn't our problem, it is yours :P

Clearly offering "unmetered" "unlimited" would result in abuse, even with the fairly stringent checking to keep orders within Europe, and more specifically France.

On the flip side of the coin, the actual cost to OVH for extra bandwidth and traffic is closer to what was being sold, than to now. I know the costs for your peering and transit links, and you could easily afford to sell for 5GBP/1TB instead of the current 15 IF you didn't have to support all these old servers that are chewing through bandwidth like no tomorrow.

I don't understand, why are you keeping all these old plans grandfathered? Your contract does not, from what I can tell, stipulate that servers can be kept on plans indefinitely...

As for weather map, well it doesn't actually include information about each link, so you can't exactly compare... But I guess if you assume an empirical view, it has increased a lot indeed.

What I/we would love to see is an actual MRTG traffic graph, all the other major providers have them (albeit only Leaseweb is totally public).

marks
04-06-2010, 15:41
The previous bandwidth regime had resulted in abuse from some customers and that's why it was changed.

That is because, probably, if we had kept the same regime for much longer, our improvement on our network and peering wouldn't have been quick enough to keep pace with the increase of traffic.

Now, with the new traffic regime, which is fairly competitive, our increasing number of server are kept in pace with the increase on the datacentre total bandwidth.

Check our network as April '09:

http://demo.ovh.net/download/357bbb3...20%2010_36.png

and check today:

http://weathermap.ovh.net/

As you can see, in 1 year, the bandwidth to London LINX from the datacentres in Roubaix, has increase 4 fold.

Thelen
04-06-2010, 13:47
Indeed, except that I have over 25 servers and have not experienced any such limits. IE, I do far more than 100Mbit total, or 1Gbit, or whatever the infrastructure limit is.

On the whole, OVH is really just a ponzi scheme, because all the unmetered they offered via UK in the past years now have to be supported as high high high usage. 100 08 servers would use similar amount to 1000 09/10 servers, and only bring in 1/10th of the income.

What that means is, 50% of the traffic is done by 10% of the income!

This is probably why extra bandwidth now costs 2-5x as much as it did before.

Andy
04-06-2010, 08:49
_Lemon_ is right, but this only applies if you have 10 servers or more, otherwise you do get more on the FR servers.

_Lemon_
03-06-2010, 14:22
Actually OVH Fr does have a similar limit to the UK, to clarify:

* OVH Fr: 100Mbps unlimited, mass infrastracture.
* OVH UK: 100Mbps unlimited; 3TB/transfer, 10Mbps thereafter.

10Mbps month to month is about 3.4TB.

The key point here is that mass infrastructure is basically 10Mbps per server on the Kimsufi (25Mbps for OVH Pro). However it's "approximately" per server, so one server can do 1Mbps, while the other can happily do 19Mbps for the month.

In theory this means the UK has more bandwidth available to them, 3TB then at most 3TB afterwards. So the UK is actually better.

However in practice this sort of infrastructure bandwidth is very difficult to enforce properly unless all servers are behind the same routers. As a result you can easily get 100Mbps across all of your servers for a month using the "mass infrastructure".

That is until OVH decide to do something about it -- their only real option is bump down the priority on the server to "Low" priority (damned to any SLA!) which don't cost OVH a relative penny in bandwidth compared to the normal peering on offer.

Andy
03-06-2010, 08:55
Basically Oles hates you and won't give anything more than to his own people

But seriously, he has a point. OVH was designed for France only but he expanded beyond that, and has found to keep prices low, he has to limit the bandwidth or it starts costing more and those costs have to be passed to the customer. French customers don't use as much bandwidth as other subsidiaries because they target a wider range of visitors than French customers do, thus more bandwidth.

Myatu
02-06-2010, 19:40
Because...:

Quote Originally Posted by oles@ovh.net
RapidSpeeds a écrit:
>
> I don't want to go on about this, so i'll be quick and straight to the
> point.
>
> FS Range.
>
> Unlimited bandwidth for French customers.
> Capped to 3TB with UK customers.
>
> Explain how that works when we are using same equipment and same
> network?


differents costs of the network + mentality

network:
FR network: I haven't put 1Euro more for 4 years. no more bandwidth.
it's a stable network. +40% customers each year with +0Euro ...
EU network costs us lot of money but I think it will be stable in 3-4
years.

mentality:
the customers FR use less bandwidth that the rest of customers not FR.
you can read "unlimited", FR likes to read it and not to use. never.
and they use it, more that 3TB they know they can't ... it's "french"
.... if you aren't french you can't understand ...

for the rest of the europe we have to write what we propose in fact.
because you aren't french, are you ?

psych0l
02-06-2010, 17:46
Its not a low priority option its normal server without any limitations i got access to 2 of them and they work just like normal servers u use with limits.
They doesnt have limits in FR because their main competitor dedibox.fr uses no limits so if they will put any limits they will not sell anything in FR, aswell its their home country so FR customers are ALWAYS before all other countries.

Rilly
02-06-2010, 17:36
I'll be .ie anyway, so still Euro for me

when they make that available that is..........


I wish they offered the low priority option to everyone then... not just .fr

tallen
02-06-2010, 17:33
Yeah it's low priority bandwidth. It's also really annoying how they get the C-250G for 15 Euros per month and people in the UK have to pay £15 per month.

Bit unfair.

Rilly
02-06-2010, 17:26
When looking at the kimsufi offers from ovh.fr vs ovh.co.uk.. i notice Ovh.fr doesn't have the 3 TB monthly limit? Are all servers bought through ovh.fr still unmetered, but all the other locations 3 TB limit? Or are all the ovh.fr on low priority?