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Filesharefreak review


Thelen
27-06-2010, 17:06
Quote Originally Posted by _Lemon_
Who is going downhill? Feral or OVH? If it's Feral, is it directly related to Feral or was it down to OVH? For example, Feral got a lot of the blame for poor FTP speeds to the US.

Why not? (I don't deal with networking hardware) Even if it's scaling 1 network past 1.5Tbps, what's wrong with having 2 segregated networks at 1Tbps each?
OVH is going down hill

The reason why not is somewhat based on IP numbers, and network topology. You simply cannot have networks in any way segregated at that size, it just won't work. This is why FDC is so crap, because they don't have very good network design, they just keep throwing BW and switches at it till it falls over.

Quote Originally Posted by stoner
Just going by what I think I know you do and prices on the LW site I would be interested to know how you split there servers and the kinda price your paying/charging to make a return on it. Of course I aint spoke to them to get a custom quote but then I run much less servers than you do and don't really think I could get that much of a discount..
Isn't too hard to figure out what he has server wise, there aren't that many options

He doesn't have THAT many servers with LW, from the initial buy it seems to be somewhere around 20-30, so certainly it isn't a huge commitment. From what I saw, it seemed to be 2Gbps split amongst them, hard to tell exactly though.

As for pricing, no idea, but figure 40% profit margin and 6 month return, you'll get a rough ballpark figure

_Lemon_
22-06-2010, 19:30
Quote Originally Posted by stoner
Yeah sorry bout that got my wires crossed a little.. I meant Server.lu
server.lu have a 15TB upload limit (check the FAQ) So comparing the MG Max to the AS10000 there's about £5 difference. However the MG comes with another CPU and double the RAM and a Gbps connection so OVH do very well in this regard.

That leaves the difference in bandwidth quality and I'm not sure about server.lu (I have no personal experience) but their network is only 75 Gbps (see: https://www.peeringdb.com/private/pa...ew.php?id=1788 ). This is probably why a Gbps connection is not given out so much on their servers.

As for the Leaseweb servers, sorry but I'd rather not disclose that information.

stoner
22-06-2010, 18:00
Yeah sorry bout that got my wires crossed a little.. I meant Server.lu

Just going by what I think I know you do and prices on the LW site I would be interested to know how you split there servers and the kinda price your paying/charging to make a return on it. Of course I aint spoke to them to get a custom quote but then I run much less servers than you do and don't really think I could get that much of a discount.. Still this topic is starting to make very interesting reading.

I feel any resellers that stick just with OVH will go down hill, not just because of the USA market and prices but to the general OVH polices and the handling of situations.

_Lemon_
22-06-2010, 17:32
Quote Originally Posted by stoner
I have some LW servers and the network seems fine (at the moment) they are only 100mbps but i'm doing around 20tb per month on them with no complaints. I would of moved my Gbits over to them if it wasn't for the insane setup fee's they quoted me. Maybe if I can get a couple of grand saved up and pay a nice lump some I can get around them, but that's gonna take a while..
I don't have any set up fees with Leaseweb and have some heavy duty Gbps servers, could you expand a little bit on your requirements? I'm curious on the differences here.

Quote Originally Posted by Thelen
Anyway, in 1yrs time, rapid/feral won't be with OVH any more as their service keeps going down hill, and other providers continue to improve.
Who is going downhill? Feral or OVH? If it's Feral, is it directly related to Feral or was it down to OVH? For example, Feral got a lot of the blame for poor FTP speeds to the US.

Quote Originally Posted by Thelen
I expect a huge move to the USA since data costs are coming down and people are more willing to pay for a reliable server now OVH is getting worse by the month. LW won't be an option for much longer, they are running out of capacity (not just theoretical, but practical. There network is almost at the limit of what the hardware can support, unless Cisco/Juniper come up with a better product), once they hit about 1.5Tbps they won't be able to grow any more without insanely high costs.
Why not? (I don't deal with networking hardware) Even if it's scaling 1 network past 1.5Tbps, what's wrong with having 2 segregated networks at 1Tbps each?

Well, I don't know, we'll see what Leaseweb do first.

NickW
22-06-2010, 12:41
Quote Originally Posted by Thelen
Where do you get that statistic from???

Agreed that not many people know bittorrent has legal uses, the same as all the P2P apps as well really.

People of all ages trade music because it's easy, not just young people. That is a misnomer, because clearly young people are more technologically adept, so there will be a bigger percentage. But in places like Sweden and Denmark, 50yr olds are swapping stuff like there is no tomorrow (heh, at 50 there might not be >_>).



They aren't actually arguing against each other...

These 2 providers have at least 1000 servers from OVH, that is somewhere between 10,000 and 30,000GBP per month, not an insignificant amount, but those 1000 probably use 10% of the traffic (70k servers).

Anyhoo, OVH TOS and such prohibit it but in reality they don't crack down because if they did, they'd not just have these 1000 servers go, but another 5000 or more french/uk who buy direct.

Anyway, in 1yrs time, rapid/feral won't be with OVH any more as their service keeps going down hill, and other providers continue to improve.

I expect a huge move to the USA since data costs are coming down and people are more willing to pay for a reliable server now OVH is getting worse by the month. LW won't be an option for much longer, they are running out of capacity (not just theoretical, but practical. There network is almost at the limit of what the hardware can support, unless Cisco/Juniper come up with a better product), once they hit about 1.5Tbps they won't be able to grow any more without insanely high costs.
LW are currently doing ~700Gbps at peak times http://noc.leaseweb.com/ According to them they double in bandwidth usage ever year, so it's going to be another year before they get that sort of issue and I'm sure there'll be equipment out by then to handle it.

As a random statistic, let's say 30% of OVH servers are used for torrenting.

That's something like £500k+ (half a million) income per month. I doubt they can afford to lose that.

stoner
22-06-2010, 11:34
I have some LW servers and the network seems fine (at the moment) they are only 100mbps but i'm doing around 20tb per month on them with no complaints. I would of moved my Gbits over to them if it wasn't for the insane setup fee's they quoted me. Maybe if I can get a couple of grand saved up and pay a nice lump some I can get around them, but that's gonna take a while..

RapidSeeds
22-06-2010, 11:26
ovh is fine for me. but i only have 1 server and realise that most problems are caused by user error.

Thelen
22-06-2010, 09:57
Quote Originally Posted by Winit
Sure, bittorrent is used to distribute legal material but come the hell on, 99% of it is dodgy traffic.

I'm not against illegal file sharing, DRM sucks! SCC4Life.

Many young people trade music illegally because it's easy! It makes perfect sense.

The needle argument is a tad silly because people are more aware of the legitimate use of a needle than they are of the legitimate use of bittorrent. Most would rather use DDL for legal content.
Where do you get that statistic from???

Agreed that not many people know bittorrent has legal uses, the same as all the P2P apps as well really.

People of all ages trade music because it's easy, not just young people. That is a misnomer, because clearly young people are more technologically adept, so there will be a bigger percentage. But in places like Sweden and Denmark, 50yr olds are swapping stuff like there is no tomorrow (heh, at 50 there might not be >_>).

Quote Originally Posted by stoner
I find it funny that there is 2 big seedbox players in here arguing over this.. Way to go guys, bring that attention to ur business. Wonder if OVH have been stopping there servers or sending emails out to them.. Or is it a case of they buy to many servers and OVH cant afford to lose that money.
Rapid speeds may not be so much a seedbox provider as Feral but I would guess they have a lot and if what OVH has said to me b4, they should be cancelling all there servers not just the rogue ones .
They aren't actually arguing against each other...

These 2 providers have at least 1000 servers from OVH, that is somewhere between 10,000 and 30,000GBP per month, not an insignificant amount, but those 1000 probably use 10% of the traffic (70k servers).

Anyhoo, OVH TOS and such prohibit it but in reality they don't crack down because if they did, they'd not just have these 1000 servers go, but another 5000 or more french/uk who buy direct.

Anyway, in 1yrs time, rapid/feral won't be with OVH any more as their service keeps going down hill, and other providers continue to improve.

I expect a huge move to the USA since data costs are coming down and people are more willing to pay for a reliable server now OVH is getting worse by the month. LW won't be an option for much longer, they are running out of capacity (not just theoretical, but practical. There network is almost at the limit of what the hardware can support, unless Cisco/Juniper come up with a better product), once they hit about 1.5Tbps they won't be able to grow any more without insanely high costs.

stoner
22-06-2010, 08:54
I find it funny that there is 2 big seedbox players in here arguing over this.. Way to go guys, bring that attention to ur business. Wonder if OVH have been stopping there servers or sending emails out to them.. Or is it a case of they buy to many servers and OVH cant afford to lose that money.
Rapid speeds may not be so much a seedbox provider as Feral but I would guess they have a lot and if what OVH has said to me b4, they should be cancelling all there servers not just the rogue ones .

Iray
21-06-2010, 23:00
40% is probably a more modest guestimate.

Winit
21-06-2010, 21:43
Sure, bittorrent is used to distribute legal material but come the hell on, 99% of it is dodgy traffic.

I'm not against illegal file sharing, DRM sucks! SCC4Life.

Many young people trade music illegally because it's easy! It makes perfect sense.

The needle argument is a tad silly because people are more aware of the legitimate use of a needle than they are of the legitimate use of bittorrent. Most would rather use DDL for legal content.

ig0r
21-06-2010, 12:41
Quote Originally Posted by NickW
While this may be true, think of the proportion of this trafic that is staying within OVH's internal network and peering (Leaseweb etc) - not clogging up the transit.
When you consider that everyone on those sites with servers @ LW/dedibox/netdirekt/keyweb etc etc - are all jumping on those torrents as well as a bunch of worldwide homelines - and you consider that those ovh servers are serving those torrents for how many days/weeks - thats still a massive amount of non ovh bw.If u assume 50% (a totally random figure not based on any facts) is non OVH bw on each seed - OVH are being whored out (though in the grand scheme of things considering network capacity etc , its not quite so bad)

And I must say I'm a member of such sites and the figure is much more like 70%+ OVH/Kimsufi if you take into account the resellers/seedbox hosts that change the reverse DNS so that they have a custom hostname .
Heh - I could well believe it - as I say, the original statistics were pretty general just for research purposes rather than taking the time to log ips and look them up. 70% is kind of frightening though...

RapidSeeds
21-06-2010, 12:18
Quote Originally Posted by Thelen
Where is that statistic from? http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/statistics/ would indicate there are more people that use for diabetes than drugs...

http://mja.com.au/public/issues/173_...hall/hall.html indicates there are only about 0.6%, vs 5-10% of 10%, ie 0.5-1%.
You completely misunderstood my sarcastic post.

Thelen
21-06-2010, 06:13
Quote Originally Posted by RapidSeeds
90+% of hypodermic needles are used for illegal drug use?
Where is that statistic from? http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/statistics/ would indicate there are more people that use for diabetes than drugs...

http://mja.com.au/public/issues/173_...hall/hall.html indicates there are only about 0.6%, vs 5-10% of 10%, ie 0.5-1%.

Quote Originally Posted by NickW
While this may be true, think of the proportion of this trafic that is staying within OVH's internal network and peering (Leaseweb etc) - not clogging up the transit.

And I must say I'm a member of such sites and the figure is much more like 70%+ OVH/Kimsufi if you take into account the resellers/seedbox hosts that change the reverse DNS so that they have a custom hostname .
Yes that is true, but having access to the traffic stats of over 500 servers, I can safely say that barely 20% of traffic is internal, at MOST 50% for some dedicated servers.

Of course, for SCC and the like, you can achieve a much higher percentage. When I used a Feral 10Gbit, I got 4TB upload and used about 1.7TB external. Bear in mind though, that was using 30 second RSS over 3 days, and I always made sure to delete torrents ASAP so as to get the best speed.

NickW
20-06-2010, 23:14
Quote Originally Posted by ig0r
To assume all torrents are illegal p2p is a misconception- but to adress where the idea has come from , one of the companys Ive done some work for did some research about 6 months ago - they got themselves onto various "upper" torrent sites (about 17 different sites in all - including sct scc etc etc) and would jump on new releases immediately, Log hosts ( not ips - this was just for statistical purposes). The outcome was that on all major releases from the people sharing it complete within 5 minutes of being released were between 20-45% OVH/Kimsufi servers. Its because of things like that that torrents get a bad name for being p2p and why OVH has gained the reputation of being a p2p paradise (that and various OVH resellers with "seedbox" in their names". Obviously other hosts such as leaseweb were also quite high in the stats - though I dont have their figures to hand. But lets face it , if OVH went on the anti torrent offensive - they would lose a significant portion of their renters - making rbx3 empty and rbx2 half empty. Torrents are bad (mostly) - would be the more accurate way to describe the situation imo. Sadly its because of the torrenters ( illegal or legal) that OVH has grown so much and how OVH can offer cheap servers.
While this may be true, think of the proportion of this trafic that is staying within OVH's internal network and peering (Leaseweb etc) - not clogging up the transit.

And I must say I'm a member of such sites and the figure is much more like 70%+ OVH/Kimsufi if you take into account the resellers/seedbox hosts that change the reverse DNS so that they have a custom hostname .

ig0r
20-06-2010, 22:47
Heh the £50 setup fee has become a long standing joke now
OVH-Customers "why do you charge £50 setup fee on automated server setups"
OVH "Because we can :P "
Other companys charge setups - fair enough, but they offer better bandwidth/support etc ( not saying ovh uk support is bad - just ovhs support reputation in general)
Anyways -Ill stop drifting off topic now lol

makno
20-06-2010, 22:38
also if the did as ig0r said, there would be no need for the 50£ setup fee which as i remember was introduced to prevent people from renting servers for one month and ditcing them. that said there has been no incentive for those us , and i think there is plenty here, who keep their server for 6-12months or longer.

ig0r
20-06-2010, 22:32
To assume all torrents are illegal p2p is a misconception- but to adress where the idea has come from , one of the companys Ive done some work for did some research about 6 months ago - they got themselves onto various "upper" torrent sites (about 17 different sites in all - including sct scc etc etc) and would jump on new releases immediately, Log hosts ( not ips - this was just for statistical purposes). The outcome was that on all major releases from the people sharing it complete within 5 minutes of being released were between 20-45% OVH/Kimsufi servers. Its because of things like that that torrents get a bad name for being p2p and why OVH has gained the reputation of being a p2p paradise (that and various OVH resellers with "seedbox" in their names". Obviously other hosts such as leaseweb were also quite high in the stats - though I dont have their figures to hand. But lets face it , if OVH went on the anti torrent offensive - they would lose a significant portion of their renters - making rbx3 empty and rbx2 half empty. Torrents are bad (mostly) - would be the more accurate way to describe the situation imo. Sadly its because of the torrenters ( illegal or legal) that OVH has grown so much and how OVH can offer cheap servers.

RapidSeeds
20-06-2010, 18:18
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
Admittedly, I do get a bit irked when someone immediately associates Torrents or P2P with illegal activity.

Sticking to the hypodermic analogy: It's like when someone pulls out a needle kit and you comment: "You're not a druggie, are you?"; you'd look quite an a$$ if the person replies: "No, I'm a diabetic".
90+% of hypodermic needles are used for illegal drug use?


Myatu
20-06-2010, 17:44
Admittedly, I do get a bit irked when someone immediately associates Torrents or P2P with illegal activity.

Sticking to the hypodermic analogy: It's like when someone pulls out a needle kit and you comment: "You're not a druggie, are you?"; you'd look quite an a$$ if the person replies: "No, I'm a diabetic".

Neither Torrents nor P2P are banned from OVH, and OVH is well capable of handling the traffic. Keep in mind that Torrents and P2P spread (and likely reduce) traffic consumption, compared to 1-to-1 audo/video streams or downloads like those from OVH's many Linux, SourceForge and other mirrors.

So, unless you have some factual information about the illegal use of Torrents at OVH, or their traffic share of OVH's total availability, don't make any claims (and if you do know of or suspect illegal use, inform abuse@ovh.net instead).

Thelen
20-06-2010, 12:13
You can stick your head up your ass as much as you want, I'll just point to linux, which has hundreds of thousands of peers seeding thousands of linux isos and such, driver sites like Asus, MSI, ATI, NVIDIA, Dell and Samsung, who use BT as well, and hundreds of internet tv shows, radio talks, indi games, and all nature of other people who can't afford to pay thousands a month for CDN.

If bittorrent can only be used for illegal seeding, then the internet, which is 70% illegal traffic, should also be shut down.

In fact, let's shut down the power as well, cos most of the power is used by evil industry who make bombs and chemicals.

Meh, let's just kill everyone, cos humans do more good than harm.

QED.

Winit
20-06-2010, 11:42
Yeah, people use bittorrent to seed legtimate stuff!

You can use examples like Blizzard etc but srsly, you ain't havin' anyone on.

Thelen
20-06-2010, 07:32
Quote Originally Posted by unclebob
In the same sense that you can't say a hypodermic needle left in the street of a dodgy area -> illegal drugs. But I digress...
Well, clearly both are able to be used for illegal purposes.

But like hypodermic needles, banning them entirely would cause more harm than good (how would medicine survive with no needles? besides, the media companies have publicly admitted they lied about losses due to P2P, so really banning it wouldn't generate a single more sale..).

If you want to ban bittorrent, suddenly linux would not be distributed, TV shows would go down the drain, even government applications would have to be remade and consequently go slow as they skimp on bandwidth.

Or the media companies could just move into the 21st century and get with it

unclebob
19-06-2010, 23:05
Quote Originally Posted by NickW
You can't say BitTorrent -> copyrighted materials.
In the same sense that you can't say a hypodermic needle left in the street of a dodgy area -> illegal drugs. But I digress...

NickW
19-06-2010, 22:08
Quote Originally Posted by Winit
Seeding copyrighted material + breaking OVH ToS.
You can't say BitTorrent -> copyrighted materials.

Next are you going to say people can't use FTP now because it can be used to transfer copyrighted material?

turbanator
19-06-2010, 20:27
anybody in france who wants to help me buy from dedibox which has become online.net i tested few of their servers they were pretty good for what they were offering

Winit
19-06-2010, 20:17
Quote Originally Posted by NickW
When did BitTorrent become illegal?
Seeding copyrighted material + breaking OVH ToS.

Thelen
19-06-2010, 19:53
Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
The maths is simple...

OVH have a 501Gbps network and 70,000 dedicated servers leased.

If there is 40 servers per rack, thats 1750 racks.

1750 racks x 4Gbps (100Mbps each server MINIMUM, lets not forget they sell supposed 1Gbps [200Mbps outgoing] and 10Gbps) = 7000Gbps network (excluding the 1Gbps/10Gbps series)

even taking transit data sent/recieved into consideration (which ovh don't like to pay for) - it falls a long way short...

Leaseweb (but we cut them out too and went to the EvoSwitch DC directly as we already have hardware) have 22000 dedicated servers, that's 550 racks on a 950Gbps network.
The math is NOT just that simple...

If you want to directly compare oversell, LW sells roughly 2200Gbit from 950, OVH 7000Gbit from 500Gbit, ie LW 2.3:1 OVH 14:1

14:1 is damn good contention ratio on the internet, especially for servers that cost 20GBP a month...

You can speculate on why OVH network is worse than LW, the only reason you'd ever know for sure is the quality of transit. LW has quality transit because they pay for it, and that is why LW is more than 2x as expensive (based on front site pricing). Also, OVH business model is to provide good BW in EU, and not outside, whereas LW is more global (that is what the responses from OVH mean when they say "change your business model to fit into ours" etc).

Colo wise, it only makes sense to do that if you have 100+ servers, otherwise it isn't as cost effective. So certainly you and Feral and perhaps Xirvik are big enough to do that, the rest of us won't be able to do colo nor would those places really be interested in such low figures.

RapidSeeds
19-06-2010, 18:29
Quote Originally Posted by NickW
When did BitTorrent become illegal?
non sequitur

elvis1
19-06-2010, 16:03
Not to sound mean but you will be inevitably loosing customers unless you provide something that raises the bar to be existing services OVH provides ( apart from support, hardening , etc).

The colocation move you mentioned in more than one post was a very promising factor. I know that its not easy to make it possible ( maybe thats why you could have something people would like ). If I could get better hardware specs and been asked to cover my share of the hardware cost plus a monthly fee ( includes the price for colo plus the stake you get) I would definitely buy from you. Of course BW terms must be as transparent as possible and regarding virtualization you should beat Oles s Claud .
Just my 2 cents

RapidSpeeds
19-06-2010, 14:07
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
Take care of your customer, and they'll take care of you.
That's all that matters - I'm happy as long as our customers are happy

Myatu
19-06-2010, 13:38
Frankly, it shouldn't be that hard for Europeans to obtain the boxes via the US if they're really that concerned about the pricing.

But it really isn't about undercutting or who has the lowest price; it's about added value. I've seen a couple companies - not many - that have server prices lower than OVH, but I wouldn't want to touch them with a 10ft stick as I'm worried they might be hosted in a place like Kowloon City. Not to mention the dodgy data protection practices in some of those places...

Take care of your customer, and they'll take care of you.

jacks
19-06-2010, 13:30
Yes the euro seed box (parasites) resellers are finished unless they can find the us boxes. Good riddance to bad rubbish!

randomguy
19-06-2010, 10:51
It's not like there's no Filesharefreak review of Leaseweb, FDCservers, Keyweb, and any other hosting company out there?

There's no Value Added Tax to be paid to USA, and that is just how it is, OVH themselves do not get the VAT we have to pay -- wouldn't it be seriously retarded to pass VAT as price increase to the customer in North America?

Before OVH the seedbox people were at Dedibox and Leaseweb, Netdirekt, Vectoral, et al... I'm sure before long the best deal will be somewhere else for them. This thread kind of reeks like some kid who's getting easy money off P2P moaning as his offers may now get undercut. And right, "but I sell webhosting too!".

_Lemon_
18-06-2010, 22:28
Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
This is coming from the man who splits ovh servers up and resells them to 20 people - you are the reason the network is so bad! At least the majority of our servers don't have 2million threads open because so many people are seeding from the one server.
The only server I put 20 users on is the HG XL: http://www.ovh.co.uk/products/hg_2010_extralarge.xml

The hardware handles it perfectly, I can't see a problem with it and none of the users have yet to complain (even with a non-EU speed issue).

However you're blaming me for letting them have the ability to dominate a disproportionate amount of the network at any one time on demand. Why do I get the blame? Are you sure OVH did not have anything to do with this?

NickW
18-06-2010, 21:12
Quote Originally Posted by Winit
LOL @ two major seedbox providers complaining. Please feel free to take the illegal traffic elsewhere.
When did BitTorrent become illegal?

Winit
18-06-2010, 19:55
LOL @ two major seedbox providers complaining. Please feel free to take the illegal traffic elsewhere.

RapidSpeeds
18-06-2010, 19:46
Quote Originally Posted by _Lemon_
Yay for "Dealing with OVH on your behalf." as a selling point.
It's the programs that are most customers problems, and updating them, and switching full websites over from a VPS when they grow, that sort of thing

This is coming from the man who splits ovh servers up and resells them to 20 people - you are the reason the network is so bad! At least the majority of our servers don't have 2million threads open because so many people are seeding from the one server.

Quote Originally Posted by _Lemon_
Also, you realise that EvoSwitch and Leaseweb are just Ocom group brands?
I didn't until my second or third phone call with them

....

Anyways, point made - won't be responding to this thread anymore unless Oles replies.

_Lemon_
18-06-2010, 19:31
Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
Knew it was coming isn't the end anyways, people pay for support, and to keep programs updated etc, I have about 200+ customers from countries that can purchase from OVH directly
Yay for "Dealing with OVH on your behalf." as a selling point.

Also, you realise that EvoSwitch and Leaseweb are just Ocom group brands? http://www.ocom.com/en

RapidSpeeds
18-06-2010, 19:15
Quote Originally Posted by unclebob
Goodbye resellers
Knew it was coming isn't the end anyways, people pay for support, and to keep programs updated etc, I have about 200+ customers from countries that can purchase from OVH directly

unclebob
18-06-2010, 19:11
Goodbye resellers

NickW
18-06-2010, 19:09
Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
The maths is simple...

OVH have a 501Gbps network and 70,000 dedicated servers leased.

If there is 40 servers per rack, thats 1750 racks.

1750 racks x 4Gbps (100Mbps each server MINIMUM, lets not forget they sell supposed 1Gbps [200Mbps outgoing] and 10Gbps) = 7000Gbps network (excluding the 1Gbps/10Gbps series)

even taking transit data sent/recieved into consideration (which ovh don't like to pay for) - it falls a long way short...
Lol, every provider/datacentre in the world has their network "oversold" in this manner. It's how well they deal with it that's important. Just imagine the cost and also the waste if they didn't.

RapidSpeeds
18-06-2010, 18:59
The maths is simple...

OVH have a 501Gbps network and 70,000 dedicated servers leased.

If there is 40 servers per rack, thats 1750 racks.

1750 racks x 4Gbps (100Mbps each server MINIMUM, lets not forget they sell supposed 1Gbps [200Mbps outgoing] and 10Gbps) = 7000Gbps network (excluding the 1Gbps/10Gbps series)

even taking transit data sent/recieved into consideration (which ovh don't like to pay for) - it falls a long way short...

Leaseweb (but we cut them out too and went to the EvoSwitch DC directly as we already have hardware) have 22000 dedicated servers, that's 550 racks on a 950Gbps network.

I'm still going to use OVH, as personally my RPS for the price I pay is fantastic, especially as I said earlier it out performed a MG Max - and a few of my customers will still want to stick to what they know, but the majority I'm switching because if I don't, won't have a business for long once the American/Canadian resellers spring up - no other reason.

I am just hoping this thread catches Octave's attention, and he can offer us this long awaited reseller program so we can actually give our customers a better deal too. (I did say earlier i wanted something for all of us, but as usual, point was completely missed and the repliers read what they wanted to see) or help by making renting rackspace in the OVH DC easier, instead of as difficult as finding a four leafed clover.

RapidSpeeds
18-06-2010, 18:30
Quote Originally Posted by Rilly
RapidSpeeds - how can you be complaining about seedboxes, when right on your website you are a seedbox provider?



So -if seedboxes are the main problem.. then stop advertising your servers for such purpose!
The point I was making was it now has a thread on a website advertising is ONLY as a seedbox - doesn't say anything about hosting, game servers, anything else like that.

We do a wide variety of setups for customers, not just 'seedboxes'

Rilly
18-06-2010, 18:27
RapidSpeeds - how can you be complaining about seedboxes, when right on your website you are a seedbox provider?

We can pre load your server with uTorrent, torrentflux, torrentflux-b4rt, rTorrent+ruTorrent or Deluge & it includes secure FTP Access....

As an OVH Reseller, our Dedicated Servers are perfect for a SEEDBOX, a RAPIDSHARE server, a GAME Server, IRCd, STREAMING Server, XDCC bots or very powerful WEB HOSTING.
So -if seedboxes are the main problem.. then stop advertising your servers for such purpose!

NickW
18-06-2010, 17:17
VAT is completely unavoidable and not OVH's fault. We shouldn't be using that as an excuse. It would be completely unfair to charge US/CA users VAT and that's just the way it is.

The best way around this that I see is OVH.us. OVH own the domain, so why not use it for the US/CA market? They could bill in USD and have more "fair" pricing. They could potentially charge US users more after currency exchange because US customers are far more likely to be using transit rather than peering, so costing OVH more for bandwidth.

_Lemon_
18-06-2010, 16:49
Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
Lucky you - our RPS out performs a MG Max by 10x the speed to the US, no idea how that is even possible... tested it from three different locations in the US, and was roughly the same - between 8x-10x more.
Wow, that's quite a difference. As far as I have worked out they play with priorities on a per-server basis and it's not just to the US, it can be anywhere (e.g. quite apparent transferring files to Leaseweb's network).

When I see problems it's generally users getting 5kb/s and stupid latency. I don't generally notice the upper limits although they're never spectacular.

The official position is that it's entirely down to the transit providers on how they give the speeds. However there have been one or two times where OVH have mysteriously been able to do something about it and restore a server's speeds.

The truth is, only OVH know what's going on here. Although I am pretty certain that OVH treat different servers differently. For example the HG servers have not seen a peering problem so far and push a lot more traffic (as you would expect -- but it's disproportionate).

Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
Also, all our old customers on the 08 series servers are now complaining, so how they have had two years of a perfect service, but are now over the last few months are noticing a deterioration in their speeds is beyond me...
I had similar problems around in November. They ended up putting the servers into low-priority mode for "using too much bandwidth". Servers that were on a monthly traffic limit were being put into low-priority mode. Marc did have the power to bring some of them back out and did do so, so I have no idea what happened here.

It now feels like--a few a months on--that the servers are being put into low-priority mode (or some varying degree of) as time goes on. Just that now I can't see it in the manager. I could be wrong here but something doesn't feel "right".

Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
Also, like last month when OVH changed the t&c's without even notifying customers, and until there was an uproar on this forum, that's only when it was reverted back - it's things like that that just bug me to the core.
Plenty of little things.

RapidSpeeds
18-06-2010, 14:42
Quote Originally Posted by _Lemon_
I've seen an improvement, but I don't really have anything more than anecdotal evidence than approximately the number of support tickets I have open regarding poor bandwidth. (The measure is "manageable" vs "unmanageable"). Although I now push the customers with issues onto the Leaseweb servers so I don't see this as a problem any longer. (Yes, even the customers with poor speeds from within the EU).
Lucky you - our RPS out performs a MG Max by 10x the speed to the US, no idea how that is even possible... tested it from three different locations in the US, and was roughly the same - between 8x-10x more.

Also, all our old customers on the 08 series servers are now complaining, so how they have had two years of a perfect service, but are now over the last few months are noticing a deterioration in their speeds is beyond me...

Also, like last month when OVH changed the t&c's without even notifying customers, and until there was an uproar on this forum, that's only when it was reverted back - it's things like that that just bug me to the core.

RapidSpeeds
18-06-2010, 14:35
Quote Originally Posted by _Lemon_
The support staff do a wonderful job, it's just that they constantly sound like they're up to their neck in problems and everyday is the most time-demanding day yet. There's also major communication problems with "head office" and the way they talk about it, it's that they have no say (and consequently none of the UK customers do too) in what happens.
I was not talking about the UK staff, without Marc and Neil, I would have looked for an alternative long ago, but I'm talking about the FR side of things; we have bought thousands of pounds of equipment as we were about to colocate, but it was like talking to a brick wall most of the time, and even though I had started taking French lessons, and had a perfect translator (my fiancť) it was still as if they didn't want our business.

Talking about UK support though, they have less and less power everytime I speak to them - refunds for example used to be done by them, now everything has to be "manually" verified by head office - and whilst we are on the subject, 2 servers a month and then they have to be manually checked? Surely once you have verified your photo id, address, telephone number and have reached 100 servers, this should be stopped.

It's just little things like that.

_Lemon_
18-06-2010, 14:07
So basically, you need to either buy your own datacentre (I realise we're all working on that). Or add value to your services somehow.

For Feral, it's managing the servers from the user's perspective and making it easy. There's even a human on the other end of support if required. We're the equivalent of dividing the servers up on behalf of the users.

However I see you're more focussed on the dedicated server end. This really does put you in a worse spot as it's easily replaced by say, OVH making a move like this.

So you're undermined, and I will be facing (along with others in the market) steep competition from new entrants. Why would you/we stay with OVH where we're all even steven?

Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
I've noticed a deterioration in the OVH network over the past few months, and they can post as many graphs as they like about how they have doubled their network capacity, but that's because they have doubled their customers, it goes hand in hand.
I've seen an improvement, but I don't really have anything more than anecdotal evidence than approximately the number of support tickets I have open regarding poor bandwidth. (The measure is "manageable" vs "unmanageable"). Although I now push the customers with issues onto the Leaseweb servers so I don't see this as a problem any longer. (Yes, even the customers with poor speeds from within the EU).

_Lemon_
18-06-2010, 13:54
I'm in a similar situation (with a similar number of servers) and despite having massive problems over the year I've only just started using other providers.

Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
I understand about the VAT bud, of course they can't - but what I'm saying is the people on this forums who have more than one server, or want to upgrade their server, not only get no sort of discount, they have to pay a setup fee, tax on top of that setup fee, tax on top of the price of the server - it's just a joke, where as people outside the EU are going to be laughing at us with what we pay - it's not going to be long before they start reselling, and kill our business anyways, but also in theory could undercut OVH themselves. We have been asking for a reseller plan for months, each time we are told something different.
OVH really only have two options here to rectify your (well, our) problem. Either (1) raise the prices to US/Canada to match their EU offers, or (2) reduce prices to the resellers so they can compete with the US offers, or (3) carry on with the current set up.

Their decision will be based on which brings in the most money -- and I fully expect that if the EU resellers die, they will be replaced with ones from the US; and that's only if there is a demand for resellers any longer.

So, I fully expect OVH not to cater for either of us. (Especially when in the past they've done nothing).

Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
So knowing this was going to happen, we contacted a few companies who were reputable, and as we have so many customers who are more than happy to switch, we were given a massive offer from Leaseweb, and will be able to basically match OVH prices with a much better network (as you know the bandwidth is far superior, a little better in EU than OVH, and a million times better outside it, true unmetered, no setup fee - we can even beat what lease offer their own customers).
I did the same, and got an overwhelming response from Leaseweb too, it was almost as if they had had many other OVH customers asking about moving over. In the first month alone I've already got 1-2Gbps of full-duplex unmetered bandwidth goodness from them.

In contrast I also tried sending off a sales e-mail to OVH about the issue and it was basically met with "change your business model to use our servers". It just went completely pear-shaped and I have no idea what happened there.

Quote Originally Posted by RapidSpeeds
Think I'm leaving regardless, because the support is just shocking as well, there's just not a lot about OVH that make us want to stay customers.
The support staff do a wonderful job, it's just that they constantly sound like they're up to their neck in problems and everyday is the most time-demanding day yet. There's also major communication problems with "head office" and the way they talk about it, it's that they have no say (and consequently none of the UK customers do too) in what happens.

RapidSpeeds
18-06-2010, 11:52
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
"Itís surely a bold (and smart) move on OVHís behalf to open themselves to the western marketplace" - that's a short step from calling Europe "the far east", LOL! I'll betcha when asked where Ireland is, he'll point to Boston, MA...
lmao..

Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
As far as VAT, as a business outside the UK but within the EU, you cancel it out. And any European doesn't have to pay US / Canadian tax...
We are registered in England & Wales, no way around it, we have to pay it - corporation tax

Regardless, USA doesn't have a patch on the prices and quality of network eu companies can offer, wouldn't want to buy a server from there regardless of the VAT savings - where as everyone wants OVH, because as it clearly says on fst, 70% of seedboxes are OVH. I've noticed a deterioration in the OVH network over the past few months, and they can post as many graphs as they like about how they have doubled their network capacity, but that's because they have doubled their customers, it goes hand in hand.

RapidSpeeds
18-06-2010, 11:44
I understand about the VAT bud, of course they can't - but what I'm saying is the people on this forums who have more than one server, or want to upgrade their server, not only get no sort of discount, they have to pay a setup fee, tax on top of that setup fee, tax on top of the price of the server - it's just a joke, where as people outside the EU are going to be laughing at us with what we pay - it's not going to be long before they start reselling, and kill our business anyways, but also in theory could undercut OVH themselves. We have been asking for a reseller plan for months, each time we are told something different.

So knowing this was going to happen, we contacted a few companies who were reputable, and as we have so many customers who are more than happy to switch, we were given a massive offer from Leaseweb, and will be able to basically match OVH prices with a much better network (as you know the bandwidth is far superior, a little better in EU than OVH, and a million times better outside it, true unmetered, no setup fee - we can even beat what lease offer their own customers).

Think I'm leaving regardless, because the support is just shocking as well, there's just not a lot about OVH that make us want to stay customers.

MicroChip123
18-06-2010, 11:32
Where are you moving to?

I know why ovh do it as they cant charge vat for people outside the eu.

But i bet the uk prices are the most expensive as £1 != €1

Just so people put this in to context:
USA C-250G = £12.52
UK C-250G = £17.61
Difference = £5.09

Myatu
18-06-2010, 11:25
"It’s surely a bold (and smart) move on OVH’s behalf to open themselves to the western marketplace" - that's a short step from calling Europe "the far east", LOL! I'll betcha when asked where Ireland is, he'll point to Boston, MA...

Anyway, I wouldn't get all riled up about these. When OVH gets fed up with network abuse or find illegal seeding, I'm sure they'll put a stop to it quite quickly.

As far as VAT, as a business outside the UK but within the EU, you cancel it out. And any European doesn't have to pay US / Canadian tax...

RapidSpeeds
18-06-2010, 10:55
Ok OVH,

http://filesharefreak.com/2010/06/16...comment-308087

The first line is? Good news for do-it-yourself seedbox aficionados.

One, more seedbox people absuing the network, great.

Two, no TAX to pay, although this may not be your fault, it's obviously something every EU customers pay on a daily basis from buying a cup of coffee to our weekly shop...

My point is, all us LOYAL CUSTOMERS get nothing and now Americans/Canadians get boxes cheaper than us, excellent - I could simply say reseller deal, discounts blah blah, but I find it unfair for everyone, not just me - so I say some sort of deal for people with more than one server at the very least.

Oles - Unless us loyal customers get something in the next few weeks, we are pulling our 431 boxes and leaving OVH, that's a promise, and maybe not everyone, but I'm sure some people will feel the same way.