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Re: The price of support, reseller and dedicated servers


Myatu
16-09-2010, 18:42
Add an option that after the 3rd time of repeating the menu, it automatically goes to an operator (or Sales)? Quite common on most IVRs, much due to the above described issue (of not receiving the DTMF signal, like sometimes with VoIP)...

LawsHosting
16-09-2010, 18:30
Quote Originally Posted by fozl
Did they get through eventually? I couldn't recreate the problem.
They tried 4 times, but I told them to give up after that. Obviously there's an issue.

fozl
16-09-2010, 17:04
Quote Originally Posted by LawsHosting
I mean my operator who speaks for me, they get 2 options yes, 1 for commercial and 2 for technical, I wanted 2, but when they pressed 2 nothing happens.
Did they get through eventually? I couldn't recreate the problem.

LawsHosting
16-09-2010, 15:33
Quote Originally Posted by fozl
Not sure I get it, you're saying you called the support line and the person that answered said that...
I mean my operator who speaks for me, they get 2 options yes, 1 for commercial and 2 for technical, I wanted 2, but when they pressed 2 nothing happens.

fozl
16-09-2010, 15:25
Quote Originally Posted by LawsHosting
I tried calling just now to sort out my issue with

and this is what my operator said

"When I press 2, nothing happens, it just repeats the options over & over"

#Fail
Not sure I get it, you're saying you called the support line and the person that answered said that...

LawsHosting
16-09-2010, 14:06
I tried calling just now to sort out my issue with
We have detected that your server xxxxxxxxxxx unnecessarily sending a large number of requests over the network via its IP failover
and this is what my operator said

"When I press 2, nothing happens, it just repeats the options over & over"

#Fail

Thelen
14-09-2010, 19:55
I guess it is comparable to IRC, whereby some customers/new people come to ours and expect 15 second response time (totally unrealistic especially if we are sleeping...), so that being the case perhaps it would be more sensible for OVH to man an IRC chan than have a chat interface.

Andy.
14-09-2010, 18:06
Quote Originally Posted by Neil
If it was the server yesterday then the reason it took a bit longer was because we need to fit a new motherboard.
Yup, it would be something major this time when I'm trying to prove a point. Sods law.
1hr30 for a new motherboard is pretty good though, so thanks for that.

Myatu
14-09-2010, 18:04
Quote Originally Posted by Thelen
The main problem with an online system is if it was public it would be clogged instantly with morons from around the globe asking questions that are explained on the site very clearly. It would have to be some sort of private system so only customers get access, at least for the support contact anyway.
Interestingly, online chat isn't used in abundance by visitors - most of the time it's when they genuinely can't find the information they seek. And in that case, you immediately have feedback that the website needs improvement in making certain information easily accessible.

Apart from putting it inside the OVH Manager, it's why support should also be tiered. Ie., level 1 handles the simple, sometimes repetitive questions in chat (and the forum!), level 2/3 handles the more serious questions/issues. That way you don't have to pay a Senior Service Technician to do the things that's more suitable for someone starting or changing careers (or simply to gain the experience dealing with these particular customers). Heck, you could even outsource it to people at home... 3 Mobile does (or did) that.

Neil
14-09-2010, 16:12
Quote Originally Posted by Andy.
"An intervention is being carried out on this server, at the moment you can't perform a hard reboot yourself"

Speak of the devil!
Server went down 50 minutes ago.
Unfortuately I didn't get logged into the manager quick enough.
As a result I've been waiting over 30 minutes for this intervention to complete and unless the server is dead to the world I can't understand why it would take so long!
If it was the server yesterday then the reason it took a bit longer was because we need to fit a new motherboard.

Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
That's all the more a good reason for OVH to implement an online chat option. But I'm curious to know why OVH's phone systems don't work for TypeTalk though... Can't the operator get through (accidental number barring)?
We are looking into the possibility of online chat, although it maybe for sales first (tech support chat 'soon'). The reason it maybe slow to get a reply is not because we have loads of emails (well sometimes ) but because we want to get the problem fixed and then come back with 'all sorted'.

Quote Originally Posted by Thelen
Hmmm, did agent smith get you?

The main problem with an online system is if it was public it would be clogged instantly with morons from around the globe asking questions that are explained on the site very clearly. It would have to be some sort of private system so only customers get access, at least for the support contact anyway.
This is an important factor which is why we need to look at this carefully.

LawsHosting
14-09-2010, 11:50
Quote Originally Posted by Thelen
The main problem with an online system is if it was public it would be clogged instantly with morons from around the globe asking questions that are explained on the site very clearly. It would have to be some sort of private system so only customers get access, at least for the support contact anyway.
Then intergrate it into the manager, just like my domain reseller registrar I use (Directi), they have 2 online-chat systems, a public system (sales and stuff) and a customer system (private via our control panel)......

People always say the internet is the future, so why not benefit from it......... It has to be cheaper in the long run.

Thelen
14-09-2010, 08:24
Hmmm, did agent smith get you?

The main problem with an online system is if it was public it would be clogged instantly with morons from around the globe asking questions that are explained on the site very clearly. It would have to be some sort of private system so only customers get access, at least for the support contact anyway.

LawsHosting
13-09-2010, 19:26
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
That's all the more a good reason for OVH to implement an online chat option. But I'm curious to know why OVH's phone systems don't work for TypeTalk though... Can't the operator get through (accidental number barring)?
It is the switchboard system, 1 for blah, 2 for blah....... They say when they choose one, it gets stuck - well, thats how the operator explained it....... I haven't called since last year, so the system could've changed?

Myatu
13-09-2010, 18:59
Quote Originally Posted by LawsHosting
As I'm disabled and can't speak, I use a TypeTalk phone, which I try not to use as most operators tell me that OVH's phone system won't work for some reason. So, email is the next best thing, and as Andy says, it can be slow at times. I hardly ever need to contact support, thankfully, but when I need it, it can be ages to resolve - or has been resolved before I get a response.
That's all the more a good reason for OVH to implement an online chat option. But I'm curious to know why OVH's phone systems don't work for TypeTalk though... Can't the operator get through (accidental number barring)?

Andy.
13-09-2010, 13:55
"An intervention is being carried out on this server, at the moment you can't perform a hard reboot yourself"

Speak of the devil!
Server went down 50 minutes ago.
Unfortuately I didn't get logged into the manager quick enough.
As a result I've been waiting over 30 minutes for this intervention to complete and unless the server is dead to the world I can't understand why it would take so long!

LawsHosting
13-09-2010, 11:39
Quote Originally Posted by Andy.
Things that irritate me about OVH support.
Email support is SLOW and their responses can be sometimes make this worse.

Things I like.
UK phone support.
As I'm disabled and can't speak, I use a TypeTalk phone, which I try not to use as most operators tell me that OVH's phone system won't work for some reason. So, email is the next best thing, and as Andy says, it can be slow at times. I hardly ever need to contact support, thankfully, but when I need it, it can be ages to resolve - or has been resolved before I get a response.

Andy.
12-09-2010, 21:40
Things that irritate me about OVH support.

You usually have to chase them.
They don't work weekends.
Email support is SLOW and their responses can be sometimes make this worse.
Terrible FAQ.
Interventions. (normally kicks in when I'm trying to fix the server myself, yes, I can turn it off, but I'd like the intervetion to be put on HOLD if I'm logged into manager then I can fix the issue myself or log out of the manager if all else fails to trigger the intervention)

Things I like.

UK phone support.
Using the forum to escalate issues (public shaming?) and to check if others have the same issues.

stugster
21-08-2010, 15:57
Three quickie points that may or may not be of interest to forum users, UK staff, and Oles himself:

1) When Oles posts in the forum about announcements, get him to do it in a Private Staff Area. Then, when translation is complete, the post can be moved in the appropriate language into the public forums.
2) Open support 24/7, not just at the Datacentre, but in the UK as well. Even if it's just a level1 tech that has the ability to kick a router or reboot a server, that's a massive step forward.
3) Bring in a business consultant that can look at the entire infrastructure of OVH. Get him to advise on the best ways to go about structuring the way OVH works in terms of changing services, updating clients, etc. There's nothing more annoying than feeling like the customer is being treated like dog dirt.

P.S. number 2 is one of the reasons why most of our servers aren't with OVH.

mks
19-08-2010, 02:17
Quote Originally Posted by marks
24/7 is noted down. But what exactly do you mean by technical support? could you be more specific? Thanks
Technical issues with the server relating to hardware or the fact that bandwidth purchase are not updated automatically and need sales staff to update it.

zydron
18-08-2010, 15:14
Quote Originally Posted by marks
that might be how the NL business work, but it's not the case in the UK. I haven't heard of such payment procedure for services sold in the UK.
What I mean with this is that OVH don't adapt sometimes to local market.
It is possible that UK and France both work with, you pay and then we deliver, but this is in some countries different (which is my country an example of).


Further what Myatu mentioned, a blog would be a great idea.
if there is an english section of it, allmost everyone in europe can read it.
But it is the will to change that I miss, and thats the same with the payment thingy I mentioned.

Also, when OVH came to NL, the Terms of Use (Algemene Voorwaarden), stated that we must follow french law.
Sorry but, maybe everything is hosted in france, I still do business with a local company, and not a french one!

Myatu
18-08-2010, 13:34
Okay, I did give Oles a word on the mailing list about this as well... So couple things:

Last year we were told, I do believe by Sophie and Neil, that it would no longer be necessary for us to post translations of Oles' posts, as you (support) would do this. But the delays between translations seem to be ever increasing, hence the frustration.

As I had mentioned before, I really think Oles should *not* post his ideas/rants directly onto the forums but either 1) post it on the French forums and send a copy to the foreign branches to be translated and then posted or 2) Have his own little blog, like many other MD's nowadays do (and for a good reason).

I prefer the latter, as it keeps the forum nice and tidy and still gives you a feeling of communicating directly with the top man in the business (albeit via blog comments). Otherwise it would feel more like a "via-via" communication, akin to what Zydron mentioned. It's quite... "detached" the way it works now.

The other issue is of course that things get lost in translation. I had posted that little cartoon in the OT area, but I imagine this is actually the issue between UK/NL/etc customers and France; someone (or a group of customers) suggest something, but it gets implemented completely different.

The divide between France and foreign branches is also annoying when we have to hear "Well, we've let the engineers in France know. We now need to wait". Surely, with all the technology abound, you could have a little more access from the UK to the servers in France to do certain things? And I would expect support to be competent enough to perform certain tasks without France having to worry you take down the entire DC? Oles needs to let go of some the powers, and spread it out...

Furthermore, I don't think there's a tiered support at any of the branches, is there? I mean, everything goes directly to a level 3 support engineer (Mark, Neil, et al).

While it may seem obvious financially at first glance, it would make more sense to have a few people do level 1/2 support for the more "mundane" things. This would include posting here, answering simple and repeat questions, updating a *real* FAQ/Guide in actual English (not Franglish). This leaves the higher level engineers to do the tasks that require direct attention to HW issues or major bugs instead of being constantly interrupted to answer a phone for small stuff.

And yes, if you did have a good FAQ/Guide, you might even be able to get away with having to hire only one level 1 support person, because surely most customers would know what to do then, rather than having to figure out a half baked "guide" of "put password in line after comments for shell access in file, but before other comment for user after adding user in shell and giving password" -- To do what?

As for paid services, I've got some docs from a competitor that really outline things well on - I believe - 7 different levels (from little extra support to fully managed servers). I'd be happy to send this to you, so you have can see what others have implemented and works well for them.

marks
18-08-2010, 12:46
Quote Originally Posted by zydron
and we normaly post-pay (after delivery of goods), instead of pre-pay (before delivery of goods), this are just little things, but if there are many little problems, they can become huge.
that might be how the NL business work, but it's not the case in the UK. I haven't heard of such payment procedure for services sold in the UK.

zydron
18-08-2010, 12:36
Quote Originally Posted by marks
The translation of the French post is always done as soon as possible. Think that it's a way for the HQ to communicate with customers in all subsidiaries (not only the English speaking one). Therefore, all subsidiaries translate Oles' posts into the local language, there is just a some delay on that, it can't be automatic.
my local subsidiare don't do that, some posts are still in french.
We simply copy the version of co.uk or register and participate in other OVH communities.

But I say it also about other things. On the french board Octave posts normal like you do. On the non-french boards he don't do that, maybe his mother tongue is french (I now that for sure), but from what I have seen, he IS the CEO of the FOREIGN COMPANIES.

edit:
And also local adaption is not allways done well.
I don't know if you heard it or not, but the whole dutch OVH site was translated with GOOGLE TRANSLATE in the begin!
and we normaly post-pay (after delivery of goods), instead of pre-pay (before delivery of goods), this are just little things, but if there are many little problems, they can become huge.
and I know the UK office can't do a thing about it, still it is good to bring it to the public. (I don't complain, its just minor imperfections)

marks
18-08-2010, 12:22
Quote Originally Posted by zydron
OVH HQ don't communicate well with non-french people, we can all see that, like posting here in french and not in our mother tongue.
The translation of the French post is always done as soon as possible. Think that it's a way for the HQ to communicate with customers in all subsidiaries (not only the English speaking one). Therefore, all subsidiaries translate Oles' posts into the local language, there is just a some delay on that, it can't be automatic.

In that sense, we would like to be able to do the translations quicker, and we aim to that.

Quote Originally Posted by mks
You should have 24/7 technical support. I am not talking about server management but basic technical support.
24/7 is noted down. But what exactly do you mean by technical support? could you be more specific? Thanks

zydron
18-08-2010, 12:20
@mks, you mean the technical support in france, or in the UK?

mks
18-08-2010, 10:29
You should have 24/7 technical support. I am not talking about server management but basic technical support. Right now support is only working the same hours as sales, that is unacceptable for any datacenter.

Thelen
18-08-2010, 04:49
I wouldn't mind paying these fees, for actual real problems!

The BW stuffup, and my server hacked problem, neither are my problem and neither I should pay for..

zydron
18-08-2010, 01:34
I don't mind if I talk via an intermediare (which are the local OVH offices), but the communication HQ <> local branch, that is where things go wrong.

OVH HQ don't communicate well with non-french people, we can all see that, like posting here in french and not in our mother tongue.
And for dutchmen on ovh.nl we don't care if we must read it in english or dutch, but that is an another topic, because ovh.nl community is worse than the ovh.co.uk (reason why I'm registered here).

Further, I don't know how it is in the UK, but we normaly pay after we get the goods, in a time period of 14 days normaly, and if you don't pay we give the billing order to a collection agency.
This is what I miss by OVH, not the flexibility to adapt to the local market!

marks
17-08-2010, 17:53
Sorry for the non-translated posts in French, it was a lot even for us.

Though in this post, Oles already points to another way to mature the ideas regarding the support. He says that we'll have to think more carefully about it. So if you have an idea on how you would like the support to work (billing, tickets, managed services and how to bill them, ....), please let us know. That is, for your particular use of OVH services, how you would like the support to run that exactly meet your needs or how the support could help you to do things that we don't do at the moment (aka managed services, paid special interventions, ....).

All feedback and requests are very welcome. We'll be take them into account during this period of restructuring a support that better go with your needs. But it'll be done over a longer period of time.

curiosity
15-08-2010, 11:55
all of a sudden , Cantona's speech about the seagulls makes sense

this is ovh.CO.UK ,forum isnt it ?. .CO.UK as in English language ?

Oles , old saying , when in Rome, do as the Romans

I would like to read all the updates as they happen , but in my own language so i can understand them , thanks to Myatu on this occasion for the translate , but it never comes out the same as it was meant.

still crying with laughter at this excerpt
"Now you know what we want, but if you are told
what we seek, you will no longer try to find what we seek
so you do not have ideas that we have not had since
you said the ideas we have"

zydron
14-08-2010, 17:10
ok, thats a good reason

but if you do it, do it good, and not like now.... half

turbanator
14-08-2010, 15:15
oh he just wants to make money. trust me there are pissed off customers right now with bw issues and if oles doesnt fix it this will be the last time u will see oles and ovh go through fraudulent service

zydron
14-08-2010, 09:48
Myatu has a point, you only annouce things - in french - and mostly don't post for answers.

but communication between france and the subsidiares was allways a problem I believe, maybe a good point to work on

edit: If you don't want to do it, why in the first place have you created such large company, you are the CEO of all the subsidiaires!

Myatu
13-08-2010, 23:19
Quit throwing "with an ax", Oles. You're not going to tell someone "You have 3 weeks left to live" to get their reaction, then say "Oh, I was only kidding - just wanted to see how you reacted!". We're customers, not "toys" you can play with.

And neither has this been "discussed" at all. You've just posted messages - in French - and done nothing else here (openly in the UK forums at least). It's becoming more irritating by the moment, as we're "left out of the loop". We're still waiting on the Q&A from this topic: http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4412

Get on the ball, Oles.

Myatu
13-08-2010, 23:12
(official translation provided above)

oles@ovh.net
13-08-2010, 23:02
Good evening
Thank you for your feedback.

The discussion was initiated following internal reflections and different
ideas floated in the air. To speed up decision-making, we
used to discuss with you as openly as possible and
most direct. Everyone says everything as it comes. Here
we also wanted to have the best feedback on the subject and therefore it
was done as usual "with an axe": you throw a shocking idea and
we look at what happens. The advantage of this method very "emotional"
is that we attrack customer affected by the issues raised and there is a
tendency to say things really interesting things.
The disadvantage is that it is very tiring and takes energy
(you and us) and we can ask too many metaphysical questions
on issues that have nothing to do with the original topic.
There is no perfect method to talk about 2000-3000
people on the mailing list and forums in 11 languages. At least
this was, it is moving fast.

So what are the results so far?

We have all read and discussed again internally. And it turns out
we did not have the answers to the questions that we rose or
really new ideas.

What are we looking for?

Forget pricing issues. It's secondary. We want to divide the
support and offer support what best suits our 3 types of customers:
the sysadmin/resellers, business and individuals. Because you all
don't want to have the same type of support. Some of you
would have preferred to have a live chat with the technicians directly
in the datacentre. Others would prefer the contact by telephone, to
hear someone verbally. Others would prefer contact by email but
always with the same person. We all react differently to the word
"support". And that is what we'd like to do,
to enhance support to no longer offer one type of support where one speaks
the same way to a beginner ("I understand nothing Ovh
is telling me) and to a pro/expert ("technically, they are null") or via the same
type of communication channel (email, phone, forum, mailing list, live chat).
We would like to moderate it and that's where we will focus
our thoughts. Now you know what we want, but if you are told
what we look for, you will no longer try to find that
so you do not have ideas that we haven't had because
you're told the ideas we have ... mmmhhh ... I do not know if I'm making myself
understand ... oh it is not easy ... this guy named oles yeah yeah
and you do not have to bear with me daily

And now?

As you're feeling a bit tired by all these exchanges that don't advance much,
we drop for the moment these thoughts. We will see when
they'll be a little more of shape (if ever ...) and more rich in interesting
ideas (one can dream ...). For the moment this is not
it (hey, we did not notice ...). Because problems of the
support does not date from yesterday, it may take a while (see bahh).
Basically, the support rotates, and it's good for many but some
you don't find it right. Why? Because you all don't react
in the same way the word "support" ... mmhhh ... I repeat myself here ...

Well, we end the week smoothly ...

Otherwise: You never know if one day someone wakes up with the idea of
century, it is not afraid to send an email ... mmmhhh ... cannot
be on ... it can happen anyday ...

Thank you again!

Regards
Octave