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Turnover on dedicated servers


S0phie
11-11-2013, 12:19
You can find the translation here: http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7627

Mark1978
11-11-2013, 10:01
Quote Originally Posted by seedhost
Can you understand what he says?
Nobody can, even if you spoke fluent French I don't think you'd be able to comprehend his ramblings.

TheGeekster
11-11-2013, 01:17
Quote Originally Posted by seedhost
Can you understand what he says?
I believe... he is saying that people can order the KS4G straight away...

from kimsufi.com instead of OVH... again seems redundant but heh.

syswhatever.comorsomething will start today, but is just a countdown website (because we're all excited about this new range! not "rude word for really really really 'ed" off or anything!)

seedhost
11-11-2013, 00:40
Quote Originally Posted by Mark1978
Can you understand what he says?

Mark1978
08-11-2013, 13:57
Oles speaks again http://forum.ovh.com/showthread.php?t=95101

Trapper
29-10-2013, 11:08
Quote Originally Posted by LawsHosting
I thought I read that the 3 FO IPv4 & /64 IPv6 were coming back to KS's? Did I misread?
This is probably based on the KS1 on the US site:
http://www.ovh.com/us/dedicated-servers/ks1.xml

~Trap

LawsHosting
29-10-2013, 09:56
I thought I read that the 3 FO IPv4 & /64 IPv6 were coming back to KS's? Did I misread?

Kode
29-10-2013, 09:04
I think the new servers will be priced such that it wont be worth switching what you have, thus solving their turnover problem and pissing off their customers at the same time.

LawsHosting
29-10-2013, 00:32
In all cases, the current servers will not be changed
Hope he enjoys all the cancellations and new orders from existing customers then.

.....and he said he doesn't want churn... Pfft.

antdgar
28-10-2013, 16:03
Quote Originally Posted by Oles
In all cases, the current servers will not be changed
Btw

Tz-OVH
28-10-2013, 12:23
If you want prices like OVH, unfortunately you need to keep the custom options to a bare minimum, such as upgrades. They'll need to employ more people, stock more parts, keep inventory etc if they are going to offer upgrades during the life of a server. And then all the testing to make sure every addon / replacement part you can order works flawlessly.

Its not something you can offer unless you charge labour fees and if not, then only on high end servers that already command a hefty rental.

chomes
28-10-2013, 12:06
If they don't want customers to do "turnover" why not allow customers to upgrade their hardware. I'd happily pay to upgrade the storage on my server but I have to pay for a high end ovh server to do so.

Jasgriff
27-10-2013, 19:27
These servers have been on offer for a few weeks and I do remember them being more expensive before.

Oles has stated that he wants 1 million servers so that would have to include the lower end as there is no way he will get to that figure with just £50 - £100 servers.

NeddySeagoon
27-10-2013, 17:21
The new KS are all virtualisation capable too but its not advertised.

I wonder if OVH have turned it off in the BIOS, left it out of their Linux kernels or are just not advertising it ?

-- edit --
Its there, the KS pages a different to the others

I quite fancy a SP 1 but I'll wait to see the GBP price

TheGeekster
27-10-2013, 14:47
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
Initial Thoughts:

No Atom Servers...

mSP was £33, SP1 is £48

I wonder if this will be different in FRA, were the BHS servers more expensive before?

KS's with soft raid will interest many...

KS's with 3x IP Failover, and IPv6 /64...

KS1 (and cheaper PE1) quotes "Email Support"..!

I wonder if the KS is now considered a cheap but not strictly personal server?

No mention of prices reducing over time...

~Trap
I think there's probably a lot which hasn't been included yet, they might have removed the cheaper KS in exchange for VPS or something along those lines. I'd say give them until tomorrow.

But yeah American prices have always been higher than europe for some reason.

LawsHosting
27-10-2013, 13:56
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
KS1 (and cheaper PE1) quotes "Email Support"..!
I wonder if the KS is now considered a cheap but not strictly personal server?
Maybe he did listen after all.....

Personal servers... Well, existing KS maybe (2G one especially) but previous ones with Pro option are not!

Just hope existing KS servers will be in this new "plan".

Trapper
27-10-2013, 09:39
Quote Originally Posted by JakeMS
Initial Thoughts:

No Atom Servers...

mSP was £33, SP1 is £48

I wonder if this will be different in FRA, were the BHS servers more expensive before?

KS's with soft raid will interest many...

KS's with 3x IP Failover, and IPv6 /64...

KS1 (and cheaper PE1) quotes "Email Support"..!

I wonder if the KS is now considered a cheap but not strictly personal server?

No mention of prices reducing over time...

~Trap

LinuxGam
27-10-2013, 09:25
Quote Originally Posted by raxxeh
no HG+?....

so little storage....
At bottom in small writing

"For more specific requirements, customised versions of our servers are also available: from 128 GB to 512 GB RAM, up to 32 SATA/SAS/SSD disks and various processors.Contact us"

raxxeh
27-10-2013, 07:39
Quote Originally Posted by JakeMS
no HG+?....

so little storage....

JakeMS
27-10-2013, 06:17
New Range:
https://www.ovh.com/us/dedicated-servers/

TheGeekster
25-10-2013, 23:32
Edit: Nvm just read english translation

Mark1978
25-10-2013, 16:42
Sophie has put the English translation in the General Discussion forum.

Still not clear what it will mean in practice.

mike_
25-10-2013, 16:40
Quote Originally Posted by JakeMS
Okay, so they have a plan..

But upto 40% discount, sounds good, but also sounds like it will only apply to new servers.. so again more turnover?
Exactly. I can't see anything in there that would prevent turnover from existing customers trying to get a better deal. Especially ones like me on old KS-16Gs and KS-24Gs which cost as much or more as a current mSP.

His post also reads like the discounts only apply to people with 10+ servers.

JakeMS
25-10-2013, 15:44
Okay, so they have a plan..

But upto 40% discount, sounds good, but also sounds like it will only apply to new servers.. so again more turnover?

Jasgriff
25-10-2013, 14:30
Read into it a little and then realized that by reading the lot I would be wasting a few minutes of my life as it probably will change between now and the launch

Happy to keep my eye on here for people commenting on parts of it.

antdgar
25-10-2013, 14:20
It's very clear with google translate, for me.

Mark1978
25-10-2013, 13:45
I've google translated and get some of it, but it's complex.

antdgar
25-10-2013, 11:21
Oles explains aspects of the new deal:
http://forum.ovh.com/showthread.php?t=94155
http://forum.ovh.com/showthread.php?t=94186

Vmlweb
25-10-2013, 10:32
And you also have to think if servers become cheaper in price over time, so will the value of the hardware in that server. If someone rented one of OVH's servers from 5 years ago and is still using it then chances are they're paying way more for the hardware than you would these days.

Vmlweb
25-10-2013, 10:07
Quote Originally Posted by ctype_alnum
Then BOOM you eventually start loosing money if it keeps being reduced.
There will obviously be a limit.

TheGeekster
25-10-2013, 01:47
I'd guess they'd try to work it out so maybe slightly more expensive to start with, but the longer you have it, the cheaper (to a degree) it becomes?

raxxeh
24-10-2013, 21:24
I wonder if this will be applied retroactively...

ctype_alnum
24-10-2013, 19:11
I appear to have made a typo oh well :P

JakeMS
24-10-2013, 17:32
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
"Lose" guys
Ths is my attmpt t mke a grammer/splling nzi's hed expold :-P.

rickyday
24-10-2013, 14:28
"Lose" guys

JakeMS
24-10-2013, 13:56
Quote Originally Posted by ctype_alnum
Then BOOM you eventually start loosing money if it keeps being reduced.
Possibly yes, but at the same time, possibly no.

If planned correctly, and done correctly, you and they would not loose any money.

ctype_alnum
24-10-2013, 13:03
Then BOOM you eventually start loosing money if it keeps being reduced.

Mark1978
24-10-2013, 12:55
Oles has said on twitter:

vvitaly: An idea to fight against turnover: the longer you keep a box the cheaper it costs.
Oles: It's exactly what we will propose

rickyday
24-10-2013, 12:01
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
This quote is wrongly attributed...




It was actuallyJeromySteves:
Corrected, Sorry!

TheGeekster
24-10-2013, 11:21
Stilllllllllllllllllll waiting on any update what so ever no matter how teeny tiny and insignificant

I know oles is (possibly maybe small chance) going to reveal the new business plan in about a week, but really would be nice for some sort of, even vague update?

JeromySteves
18-10-2013, 22:45
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
The professionals amongst us haven't done this, so no lesson learnt!
Unfortunately we experienced huge growth in a very short period of time. The ease of getting servers with OVH resulted in putting better judgement aside and becoming top heavy in their network.

It caused a lot of issues for us initially but we have now balanced everything out.

Trapper
17-10-2013, 18:49
Quote Originally Posted by SRT
Who said anything about the KS range being new servers ;-)
OVH... As they spent an eternity waiting for New Hardware from Intel

I am sure they got a good deal, but not that good.

~Trap

Trapper
17-10-2013, 18:47
This quote is wrongly attributed...

Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
"This has taught us a valuable lesson. No matter how attractive a single company is, it is dangerous to put all of your eggs in that one basket."

The professionals amongst us haven't done this, so no lesson learnt!

It was actuallyJeromySteves:

Quote Originally Posted by JeromySteves
This has taught us a valuable lesson. No matter how attractive a single company is, it is dangerous to put all of your eggs in that one basket.

rickyday
17-10-2013, 17:46
Quote Originally Posted by JeromySteves
"This has taught us a valuable lesson. No matter how attractive a single company is, it is dangerous to put all of your eggs in that one basket."
The professionals amongst us haven't done this, so no lesson learnt!

SRT
17-10-2013, 15:00
Who said anything about the KS range being new servers ;-)

Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
£2.5 x 12 = £30...?

Including:
Electric
Internet Connection
Mobo
CPU
Ram
HDD

...and paying the guy to put it together...!
... and the DC building
...business Rates

Sorry, I think you are wrong.

~Trap

Mark1978
17-10-2013, 12:05
BTW Oles is saying on twitter, 10-14 days. So at least another two weeks of this sillyness.

Oh well if it's good enough for the US government.

Mark1978
17-10-2013, 11:54
And sometimes when you go looking for alternatives you find they are better.

OVH has been out of action for long enough now that alternatives are starting to be looked at.

ctype_alnum
17-10-2013, 11:32
"This has taught us a valuable lesson. No matter how attractive a single company is, it is dangerous to put all of your eggs in that one basket."

You don't say.

Kode
17-10-2013, 09:01
@JeromySteves - which providers?

JeromySteves
17-10-2013, 04:48
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
This is really what infuriates me, customers like Gavin spending proper ££ with OVH every month on 25 production servers, they want even more, and yet OVH cannot help them.

Yes stop orders on play things like Kimsufi servers but really with the professional range this is ludicrous.

This isn't some KS 2G server he wants OVH, it is a custom HG, cannot believe OVH are throwing money away like this, driving loyal customers into the competitions hands.

Well all know the situation so please OVH support don't bother replying with "you can email and maybe, just maybe we will give you a server"

Next we will have to beg if we want another server.

This is just like the Cheese Shop that sells no cheese!!

http://youtu.be/vJhq9eq_eJg
We currently have 112 servers with OVH. A mix of SP and EG and some MGs. We have had a huge demand for servers over the last 2 months and could have easily taken 100+ more. We have tried and tried to get them to take our money and they simply will not do it.

We have pushed a lot of money into other providers around Europe. They are happy to take our money, provide great specs and great support. Better control panels, better support, better options for almost the same price. It has actually been a blessing to an extent. We have now found comparable providers that have allowed us to expand our offerings and locations.

We would love to continue growing with OVH, but they have made it impossible. Until they get back in order we are trimming out our OVH servers.

If OVH does get back on track we will be happy to purchase more. We were very happy customers until the recent events.

This has taught us a valuable lesson. No matter how attractive a single company is, it is dangerous to put all of your eggs in that one basket.

Trapper
16-10-2013, 18:55
Quote Originally Posted by SRT
There is an important factor that everyone is clearly missing.

The initial price OVH pay for new servers. For all we know OVH recoup their costs within the first year.


SRT.
£2.5 x 12 = £30...?

Including:
Electric
Internet Connection
Mobo
CPU
Ram
HDD

...and paying the guy to put it together...!
... and the DC building
...business Rates

Sorry, I think you are wrong.

~Trap

Mark1978
16-10-2013, 16:59
Quote Originally Posted by SRT
There is an important factor that everyone is clearly missing.

The initial price OVH pay for new servers. For all we know OVH recoup their costs within the first year.
Kind of like the way hire car companies can buy cars at such a discount they can hire them out and then sell them on and get back what they paid for them. OVH will get a massive discount on components, especially since they build their own servers.

SRT
16-10-2013, 16:26
There is an important factor that everyone is clearly missing.

The initial price OVH pay for new servers. For all we know OVH recoup their costs within the first year.


SRT.

Trapper
16-10-2013, 14:19
Quote Originally Posted by Mark1978
How about just figuring out what's going to happen and planning for the turnover to take place.
The plan "for turnover" is already in place. When an old box is returned, it is fitted into one of the (now lower) categories and re-sold. Examples:

6 Month old HG returned would currently become an EG
18 month old EG might become an SP.
12 month old SP would become an KS

... The problem is you get less money for this hardware than you thought. THAT is the real problem. (solution below)

Quote Originally Posted by shadow
Any way to prevent this? Nope, not as far as I can see.
There is of course a way to prevent it. Just none that anyone will like.

You could charge setup fees, which would alter the (financial) balance between your existing hardware, and churning to a new one.

The real answer is to understand that prices need to drop over time. Oles released a 2012 SP, which compared to a 2013 is less powerful, and more expensive. If the price had been set properly for the 2012 SP in the first place, he could afford to drop the price (whether it stays with the same client or not). This would prevent turnover, no-one however wants to pay more...

Think about the 2013 KS2G. Next year, a better replacement will no-doubt be available. Even if the "2014" is the same price, people will switch. To stop this you could lower the price of the 2013... But how low can you go...?

These initially low prices prevent later lowering of prices. So, the only real solution is to correctly price the servers, so they are going to return their cost over their life.

(The following is based on a VERY basic understanding - an accountant or capital-adjuster would be better placed to explain this)

(I am only talking about hardware cost here, connection and electricity costs are ignored)

Thinking about this from the "far-end", a server which is 5 years old, and still owes the company money. Lets say £60. This needs to be rented out for the whole year at £5 PCM - This really is what KS was designed for.

OK, so what about year 4? - When the server is 4 years old, it may still need to get £240 back. £60 of that we are going to try to get in year 5, so we need to get £180 this year, so £15 PCM.

I think you should now get the drift. Each year of the servers life, it needs to get less back.

Now think about all these KS2G's they have just built. How long are they going to need to get money from them? 5 or 6 years? At some point in time they will be unsaleable. If this is after 2 or 3 years, OVH have a serious problem, they will have 20,000 servers which are too out of date to sell.

OK, I hear people crying in the background, so let's think about what a Properly priced server should be. I'll take the incredible mSP as my example.

The mSP is currently (not available) at £40. If it was £50 or £55 could anyone else out there even come close? - don't think so. This extra money from year 1 means less money required in later years. In year 2 maybe £45, year 3 £35, year 4 £20.

As I mentioned earlier, no-one whats to hear this. But at least these prices would be sustainable.

Those here who still think OVH should just go back to selling servers, and allow the turnover to happen will eventually break the company. So that is the only thing which really cannot happen.

There is another major difference between Mobile Phones and Servers.

The Mobile company wants to tell you the phone is free, or at least very cheap. They do however need to recover this cost within your contract. So the cost of the phone is recovered in the two years you have the contract.

A Server on the other hand needs to recover it's cost within it's life. For HG's that may be 6 years. The server is unlikely to be with the same client for all of this time. So when it changes hands after about 2 years, it still needs to recover "cost". The Mobile does not. The Mobile may still have value, but all of the cost has been recovered.

The last server I had from FastHosts was a minimum contract of 1 year. They do not recycle servers, so it need to have it's "cost" paid in that time. That is why their KS4G equivalent is £40 PCM not £12.

~Trap

Vmlweb
16-10-2013, 12:56
Quote Originally Posted by shadow
Any way to prevent this? Nope, not as far as I can see. As long as the new boxes are better/more affordable than customers' existing boxes then you're always going to be in the same position of high turnover. The only possible solution I can think of is in place upgrades, being able to upgrade certain server components via the manager, such as more HDD, better CPU perhaps. I'm not a server guy so I have no idea if that's even technically or physically doable, but I really can't see a way forward for OVH without causing high turnover. Going back to my smartphone analogy, when a new smartphone comes out, I can't just 'upgrade' the existing one with newer hardware, depending on what you have you may be tied in (boo), you may be able to sell it and purchase the new one, but with servers, obviously OVH isn't prepared for this like smartphone manufacturers are.
Looking at this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y47RM9zylFY
They just seem to push the processor into the motherboard and done, same with ram and drive.
I'm pretty sure they could simply swap it out for more powerful components or more components if they wanted to.

There may be some limitations due to certain motherboards being used but I think it could be a way forward.

shadow
16-10-2013, 11:21
When you already have an existing smartphone, that's costing you £30 month without any contract, and a newer smartphone comes out, with an upgraded display, CPU, RAM etc and costs £5 less, you're obviously going to get the newer smartphone. Not only is it better, but it's cheaper too. What we saw was the exact same scenario - newer box came out, cheaper and better specs, existing customers dumped their old box en masse, new customers also jumped on the bandwagon.

Any way to prevent this? Nope, not as far as I can see. As long as the new boxes are better/more affordable than customers' existing boxes then you're always going to be in the same position of high turnover. The only possible solution I can think of is in place upgrades, being able to upgrade certain server components via the manager, such as more HDD, better CPU perhaps. I'm not a server guy so I have no idea if that's even technically or physically doable, but I really can't see a way forward for OVH without causing high turnover. Going back to my smartphone analogy, when a new smartphone comes out, I can't just 'upgrade' the existing one with newer hardware, depending on what you have you may be tied in (boo), you may be able to sell it and purchase the new one, but with servers, obviously OVH isn't prepared for this like smartphone manufacturers are.

The irony is because the servers have been unavailable for so long, once they start going on sale again, there will still be high turnover/orders meaning that some people may not be able to order/obtain a box from OVH for the rest of 2013...

Mark1978
16-10-2013, 10:11
How about just figuring out what's going to happen and planning for the turnover to take place.

makno
15-10-2013, 20:55
unfortunately this is OVH, Oles wakes up pne morning and decides from today servers at £0.01 so big demand that OVh can't cope with.

I agree with the idea of reducing the price of existing servers, heck after 6 months you get 5% off or something like that would help.

In 6 years at ovh i had 3 server and that was due to expansion plus why should i pay £40 for a 2 years old server when i can get the new range for £25 and better specs?

Now if instead OVh offered me to keep my old one for let's say 20 (it has to match the new offer and be lower) i might think of it.

Besides, i really doubt Oles reads the forums

Tig0r
15-10-2013, 20:36
Quote Originally Posted by makno
So you are suggesting OVh goes back 2/3 years and pisses off most of the costumers that have come back since they removed setup fees...
Well, I'd advise against pissing off any customers if at all possible!

But they obviously have a problem with customers who would swap their existing box as soon as a better spec box comes along.

So firstly I agree with with Trapper (Hi, nice to be here!) - the new boxes should be more expensive than the older boxes in the same class. when they make higher-spec boxes available for the same money, trading in your box is a no-brainer - by doing this they have to expect serious turnover.

Secondly, as I said before, they should reduce the price of existing boxes month by month, so there's an incentive to keep your old box and only upgrade if you actually need the new higher spec.

And thirdly, yes, I think a setup fee - if you do not commit to a minimum contract - would provide a further incentive to keep your old box unless you really need the upgrade. And if you do really need the upgrade, then commit to a minimum contract and see the setup fee waived!

Just my opinion, of course!

Trapper
15-10-2013, 20:25
Quote Originally Posted by makno
So you are suggesting OVh goes back 2/3 years and pisses off most of the costumers that have come back since they removed setup fees...
And your ideas are..... Completely missing.

There are major problems with the current "offerings", so much so that they are not currently being... errr, "offered".

It my belief that most people here understand that maintaining status quo will not work. Something must change.

As the OP (Oles) says, feel free to comment here with suggestions as to how this can be resolved. At the risk of repeating myself, "standing still" is not an option.

~Trap

makno
15-10-2013, 19:04
Quote Originally Posted by Tig0r
Okay to put my suggestions forward (and not just in the hope that I will be rewarded for my ideas with the ability to order more servers!!

1/ Offer a choice - free setup for a 12 month contract, or pay a setup fee and take a monthly contract.

2/ At 12 months onwards reduce the price of any server package by 1% per month, so existing servers get cheaper the longer you keep them.

3/ There should be an automatic renewal option - I asked for this in July 2012 and was told this will be available soon, but to set up a standing order for now. I am still renewing manually every month with no sign of an automatic renewal option still!

(Whether this is obligatory or not is another matter, but there should definately be an option for this!)

4/ Offer bigger incentives for long-term payments. I would not consider paying 12 months up-front when it will save me just 2.5%... I would pay monthly and invest the remaining money elsewhere!!

5/ Tell us when it is likely we can order more servers again!! Will it be weeks? months? years?

6/ And of course... let me order new servers so I can continue moving my servers over from 1&1!!!

I emailed customer services weeks ago, gave them details of what I want - new servers, no turnover - and am still waiting for them to tell me when ordering will be possible

If I have a serious problem with one of my 1&1 servers whilst I am waiting, I am forced to purchase a new server with 1&1... and I will take the 12 month option with no setup fee, of course!
So you are suggesting OVh goes back 2/3 years and pisses off most of the costumers that have come back since they removed setup fees...

K.Kode
15-10-2013, 12:14
Leaseweb are pretty decent, upgradable specs are nice.
Not as cheap as OVH but they've set all mine up this week within 24 hours of ordering.

Gomjaba
15-10-2013, 12:12
Essentially you get what you pay for .. Or in OVH's case, you don't get what you pay for

Trapper
15-10-2013, 10:33
Quote Originally Posted by Tig0r
1/ Offer a choice - free setup for a 12 month contract, or pay a setup fee and take a monthly contract.
Welcome to the forum Tig0r.

I especially like point 1... Some around here will not like it, but mainly those people are causing the turnover.

The main problem however is that 12 months is not long enough for OVH to recover the money for the server. Really they are looking at 2 to 3 years to cover that cost.

Bringing the price down over the life of the server has problems too. This extends to maybe 5 years the time taken to recover the investment.

There is a way around this: Raise the price of the initial offering of a particular server. This will allow investment to be returned quicker and/or leave margin available for the later reduction in price.

This is probably why everyone else is more expensive than OVH - they have already "done the math".

There is a flip-side to this - Quality vs. Price.

OVH were (IMO) really good value for money - the Quality was good - the price was cheap. Now however with changes to my existing contract (with NO price reduction for removed OVH responsibilities) the balance has changed. The Quality is only now "OK to Poor".

Add to this all of the other factors:
No Communication OVH to Customers
No Communication Oles to OVH
VAC introduced while still in Alpha
Wait times ridiculously extended
No Servers available - even for NON turnover

Most of my servers are with OVH. I do have some others in specific locations, but if location is not an issue, my first thought would have been OVH. I have asked, but I cannot get...

So now I have (ordered) my first server at LeaseWeb - don't know what they are like, but I need a server now, not when Oles finally decides to listen to reason. If LeaseWeb does not work out, I'll try someone else. I wonder if my sig will have more "Elsewhere's" in the near future...

~Trap

Myatu
15-10-2013, 00:26
Quote Originally Posted by macole111
One word: Oles.
One picture:


Tig0r
15-10-2013, 00:25
Okay to put my suggestions forward (and not just in the hope that I will be rewarded for my ideas with the ability to order more servers!!

1/ Offer a choice - free setup for a 12 month contract, or pay a setup fee and take a monthly contract.

2/ At 12 months onwards reduce the price of any server package by 1% per month, so existing servers get cheaper the longer you keep them.

3/ There should be an automatic renewal option - I asked for this in July 2012 and was told this will be available soon, but to set up a standing order for now. I am still renewing manually every month with no sign of an automatic renewal option still!

(Whether this is obligatory or not is another matter, but there should definately be an option for this!)

4/ Offer bigger incentives for long-term payments. I would not consider paying 12 months up-front when it will save me just 2.5%... I would pay monthly and invest the remaining money elsewhere!!

5/ Tell us when it is likely we can order more servers again!! Will it be weeks? months? years?

6/ And of course... let me order new servers so I can continue moving my servers over from 1&1!!!

I emailed customer services weeks ago, gave them details of what I want - new servers, no turnover - and am still waiting for them to tell me when ordering will be possible

If I have a serious problem with one of my 1&1 servers whilst I am waiting, I am forced to purchase a new server with 1&1... and I will take the 12 month option with no setup fee, of course!

Vmlweb
14-10-2013, 23:34
Quote Originally Posted by shadow
Of course the last people whom he would consider for feedback is his paying customers - I see no open dialogue between management and the people that make this company tick. They'd better bloody hope that this solves all issues once and for all, customers are fuming and they really don't want to add more fuel onto the fire.
Yep we shouldn't have to scour twitter to find out what the hell is going on.

shadow
14-10-2013, 23:28
Quote Originally Posted by Vmlweb
Oles ‏@olesovhcom 1h
@Domje we are working on the new business model and we will propose them all very soon. lot of work ..
Of course the last people whom he would consider for feedback is his paying customers - I see no open dialogue between management and the people that make this company tick. They'd better bloody hope that this solves all issues once and for all, customers are fuming and they really don't want to add more fuel onto the fire.

Vmlweb
14-10-2013, 23:16
Oles ‏@olesovhcom 1h
@Domje we are working on the new business model and we will propose them all very soon. lot of work ..

ctype_alnum
14-10-2013, 20:32
Quote Originally Posted by macole111
One word: Oles.

-macole111
Original as ever.

macole111
14-10-2013, 18:34
One word: Oles.

-macole111

Domje
14-10-2013, 18:21
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
This is just like the Cheese Shop that sells no cheese!!

http://youtu.be/vJhq9eq_eJg
Absolutely! From what I read the reason for Oles stopping people buying new servers was because they were upgrading their old servers with cheaper newer ones, OVH are clearly the cheapest anywhere (which is good), why make things even cheaper if you don't want customers to replace their existing servers with cheaper/better ones for the same price?

Andy
14-10-2013, 18:14
This this this and more of this! I can understand stopping the Kimsufi's and perhaps the SP servers, but not the more expensive ones that professionals are going to be using. I mean come on, OVH can't lose out on the MG and HG servers surely?

rickyday
14-10-2013, 18:12
Quote Originally Posted by gbell
OK we have 25 production servers with OVH, VIP support, ASA 5520 firewall, Pro usage on all Servers.
This is really what infuriates me, customers like Gavin spending proper ££ with OVH every month on 25 production servers, they want even more, and yet OVH cannot help them.

Yes stop orders on play things like Kimsufi servers but really with the professional range this is ludicrous.

This isn't some KS 2G server he wants OVH, it is a custom HG, cannot believe OVH are throwing money away like this, driving loyal customers into the competitions hands.

Well all know the situation so please OVH support don't bother replying with "you can email and maybe, just maybe we will give you a server"

Next we will have to beg if we want another server.

This is just like the Cheese Shop that sells no cheese!!

http://youtu.be/vJhq9eq_eJg

gbell
14-10-2013, 17:33
OK we have 25 production servers with OVH, VIP support, ASA 5520 firewall, Pro usage on all Servers.

We are currently in a position where our Data Warehouse is running low on disk space and require an additional server to migrate to and i asked the question as to what would be the ETA on purchasing a BIG HG CUSTOM with several disks.

To be told "well you can send an e-mail to us but we still cannot provide and ETA" is an absolute joke. OVH support did mention "Why don't you archive your data off for a few months"
YES A DATA WAREHOUSE WITHOUT ANY DATA SOUNDS LIKE A REALLY GOOD OPTION !!!!

OVH You seriously need to get your finger out and resolve your issues, this is no way to run a company, previously i have been very happy with yourselves now your a joke !!!!

NOT HAPPY AT ALL

Gavin

Mark1978
14-10-2013, 17:21
This is just a joke now; get it sorted.

TheGeekster
12-10-2013, 22:42
Quote Originally Posted by shadow
I've not replied to this topic yet and I've been meaning to do so. For the time being, I've been watching these forums very closely and well, disappointing isn't even the word to describe the mess OVH have gotten themselves in to. OVH haven't exactly reassumed fellow customers that they are a company that has a handle on things, or that they can reassure customers, instead, we're left in the dark as to what exactly OVH are doing, any particular timeframes etc.

Of course, the issue is, OVH have no competitors, and this is what happens when we let a single company have a monopoly over the entire market. Alternatives such as 100tb, leeseweb, hetzner etc don't offer anywhere near the attractive offers OVH do, but then OVH really underperforms when it comes to customer service.

Now my main concern here is what is happening to the servers? Do OVH currently have servers unallocated right now? What about the servers people gave up switching from 2012 to 2013? For me, OVH should simply return to the old 2012 range for now, and then proceed to roll out the new 2013/2014 range gradually, perhaps firstly taking emails of those interested in the servers so they know what numbers they are looking at (had they have done that in the first place and saw 50,000 were interested and planned appropriately instead of just a roll out we probably wouldn't be in this mess today). This is what happens when you take version 1.0, switch to 2.0 and have teething problems and no way to switch back to 1.0, all the meanwhile customers are getting irate at the lack of support, OVH can do far better than this.

I'm hoping that the situation with OVH improves and quickly, and that they can begin selling servers while they also try out new business plans, because not selling servers, your primary product, seems crazy to me.
Man, you read my mind. I love OVH with all my heart (You are never going to get such prices anywhere else), but they have shot themselves massively. Now, there are so many complaining threads on these forums I'd be amazed if they read these anymore, but really would be nice for a few more updates. Personally got a lot of projects on hold waiting for OVH, really really don't want to go to another provider man.


*hugs to the OVH guys and the one guy on support who replies to all of my tickets*

shadow
12-10-2013, 19:29
I've not replied to this topic yet and I've been meaning to do so. For the time being, I've been watching these forums very closely and well, disappointing isn't even the word to describe the mess OVH have gotten themselves in to. OVH haven't exactly reassumed fellow customers that they are a company that has a handle on things, or that they can reassure customers, instead, we're left in the dark as to what exactly OVH are doing, any particular timeframes etc.

Of course, the issue is, OVH have no competitors, and this is what happens when we let a single company have a monopoly over the entire market. Alternatives such as 100tb, leeseweb, hetzner etc don't offer anywhere near the attractive offers OVH do, but then OVH really underperforms when it comes to customer service.

Now my main concern here is what is happening to the servers? Do OVH currently have servers unallocated right now? What about the servers people gave up switching from 2012 to 2013? For me, OVH should simply return to the old 2012 range for now, and then proceed to roll out the new 2013/2014 range gradually, perhaps firstly taking emails of those interested in the servers so they know what numbers they are looking at (had they have done that in the first place and saw 50,000 were interested and planned appropriately instead of just a roll out we probably wouldn't be in this mess today). This is what happens when you take version 1.0, switch to 2.0 and have teething problems and no way to switch back to 1.0, all the meanwhile customers are getting irate at the lack of support, OVH can do far better than this.

I'm hoping that the situation with OVH improves and quickly, and that they can begin selling servers while they also try out new business plans, because not selling servers, your primary product, seems crazy to me.

LinuxGam
12-10-2013, 09:15
I quite like data centers, but then I like the cold, love servers and have tinnitus, so actually it's more relaxing for me than a hot quiet office.

rickyday
11-10-2013, 21:30
Datacenters lovely places in the summer!! Not soo much fun in winter!

Starteck2002
11-10-2013, 14:34
You really wouldn't! I call in on my servers around once a month (sometimes more if things break) and the only way I can describe it is cold and deafening. Makes matters worse when you are driving home and can't remember if you plugged that network cable back in or powered a particular machine back up....

vm1990
10-10-2013, 20:53
Quote Originally Posted by Starteck2002
lol, yes, very good point. Something that is quite evident is how little the OVH staff are updating this post - you would expect them to be very active on the forums considering this is going to be their KS support....
think if i send them my CV they will employ me just to run around asking and answering questions i need a job
be quite nice to id love to work in a data center hell id love to live in one the buzzing of servers and the flickering of lights makes me feel right at home

JakeMS
06-10-2013, 06:33
Quote Originally Posted by vladinc
why you keep breaking your keyboards writing in this therad , when nobody from OVH actually gives a crap what you write?!
Because our keyboards are made of higher quality, and do not break when used to type .

vladinc
05-10-2013, 22:05
why you keep breaking your keyboards writing in this therad , when nobody from OVH actually gives a crap what you write?!

NexusIS
05-10-2013, 18:07
Quote Originally Posted by TheBritoid
In my opinion, if OVH wants to stop "turnover", they need to stop changing their plans every day and offer the ability to (but in a limited way) upgrade an existing server.

Say I need an additional drive or a larger one, I have to cancel my existing server and order a new one.
Fixed configuration keeps costs down.. they can run like an assembly line, and keep 'lots' of stock around (keeping their 1H delivery).

Customization - would definitely be nice. Not everyone's needs can be fit with the various offerings (and it would allow for a smaller number of base offerings)

Perhaps as a premium offering. I wouldnt mind paying a setup fee on top of the normal system price for a customized version of a server - and I certainly wouldnt expect normal delivery times with a customization.

NexusIS
05-10-2013, 16:32
Quote Originally Posted by NeddySeagoon
Well, you may about to be billed. These forums document that being billed and your server actually being delivered can be widely separated events.
Then, I'm old and cynical.
It seems your cynacism was well warranted.

They decided to close the order that was previously accepted when they went to releasing the limited number of machines being released... not that they told me about doing that

So while they apparently released a few of the machines that I wanted to purchase, I didnt get one as they were only available for online purchase to the quickest mouseclicks.

Really OVH? Is this how you build customer loyalty?

Starteck2002
30-09-2013, 18:49
lol, yes, very good point. Something that is quite evident is how little the OVH staff are updating this post - you would expect them to be very active on the forums considering this is going to be their KS support....

Jasgriff
30-09-2013, 10:03
Quote Originally Posted by Starteck2002
Just thought i'd put this back on topic...

When are we likely to see dedicated servers for sale again? I need two of the KS2G's...
I think asking when you would be likely to get a server would be a better question than when will you take my money for one

Starteck2002
30-09-2013, 09:51
Just thought i'd put this back on topic...

When are we likely to see dedicated servers for sale again? I need two of the KS2G's...

macole111
29-09-2013, 16:31
A likely story! I do like Big Bang Theory, but I was a bit late to the show so I am still working on the series 1 - 4 boxset. A great show though!

-macole111

JakeMS
29-09-2013, 14:14
IT Crowd? That sounds a little geeky, I'm not really into stuff that is geeky .

Do either of you like Big Bang Theory, seen Season 7 EP1 yet? made me laugh a fair bit.

macole111
29-09-2013, 14:10
Yay! Someone else watched it. It was a good way to end, much better than the last one of the 4th series.

-macole111

Jasgriff
29-09-2013, 13:55
Quote Originally Posted by macole111
I have never ever seen such an argument over the pros and cons of hardware RAID. We are just too Geeky.

On another note did anyone see the IT Crowd last night :P

-macole111
If it was the final episode one yes! well funny.

Jasgriff
29-09-2013, 13:54
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
Sorry don't do this very often cant be bothered reading any more of their rubbish.

It is plain to see there is only one person on this thread in denial and quite frankly they are embarrassing themselves.
No way did someone push your ignore list button! I am shocked! ha

LinuxGam
29-09-2013, 11:46
I just did the same. As trying to explain reason to a troll will just end in trolling.

Please lets all ignore this fool.

rickyday
29-09-2013, 11:27
Sorry don't do this very often cant be bothered reading any more of their rubbish.

It is plain to see there is only one person on this thread in denial and quite frankly they are embarrassing themselves.

elcct This message is hidden because elcct is on your ignore list.

LinuxGam
29-09-2013, 08:41
Quote Originally Posted by elcct
I think you have lost my point. I said that whomever made decision at OVH about new servers has been living in a cave or sth.
HW RAID is a waste of money and could be spent on 4x drives for example.
That's the good thing about being in a free land, we all can have our opinion. I personally would rather have a RAID card in my server. I run a few PC's at home with software RAID, SSD's and i7 processors, so I am not blind to how well they function.

Its important to me for servers to be 100% stable as that's my income and job. My mSP with soft RAID has had to go as its never been stable running on ProxMox. Might not be the RAID of course, but then it wasn't anything else they swapped out....

elcct
29-09-2013, 00:38
Quote Originally Posted by JakeMS
So elcct,

You feel cheated because you have the choice of a server with hardware raid?
https://www.ovh.co.uk/dedicated_serv...g_reloaded.xml

And one without?
https://www.ovh.co.uk/dedicated_servers/eg_64g.xml

Just pick the one without hw raid if it bothers you that much jeez.
I think you have lost my point. I said that whomever made decision at OVH about new servers has been living in a cave or sth.
HW RAID is a waste of money and could be spent on 4x drives for example.

JakeMS
28-09-2013, 22:57
So elcct,

You feel cheated because you have the choice of a server with hardware raid?
https://www.ovh.co.uk/dedicated_serv...g_reloaded.xml

And one without?
https://www.ovh.co.uk/dedicated_servers/eg_64g.xml

Just pick the one without hw raid if it bothers you that much jeez.

elcct
28-09-2013, 15:11
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
Can the crap be split from this thread please OVH?
You are in denial stage, that you can't believe you have been cheated so badly. It is understandable, as rejection is a typical mechanism.

macole111
28-09-2013, 14:17
I have never ever seen such an argument over the pros and cons of hardware RAID. We are just too Geeky.

On another note did anyone see the IT Crowd last night :P

-macole111

rickyday
28-09-2013, 13:55
Can the crap be split from this thread please OVH?

Perhaps a new thread can be created regarding the pros and cons of software vs hardware RAID please?

VBulletin allows you to do this.

Just a thought

elcct
28-09-2013, 13:35
Quote Originally Posted by NeddySeagoon
Hardware raid is totally wasted unless you are using a raid level with redundency on a single core CPU. On a multicore CPU, the XORs only take a small fraction of one core.

Raid0 imposes no overhead at all, the data is written to alternate drives in the raid set.
Raid1 has the overhead of setting up N DMA transfers an a write, where there are N spindles in the raid set.

Raid5 and Raid6 both have to calulate redundent data on write and decode it on read.
A multicore CPU can do this without breaking into a sweat. So far so good. Thats all under normal operating conditions.

Under power fail conditions there is a nasty call the raid hole. During a write, power fails and data is only written to a subset of the drives in the set. Some form of battery cabup is required to protect against this. With software raid, it needs to be a UPS, since the system needs to complete the writes. With a hardware raid card, backing up the raid card RAM is enough to keep the drives consistent, the in flight write will complete when power is restored. However, what of data in the OS cache?
Data will be gone. Also if you are using server grade SSD drives like Intel 320, they have super capacitors that hold enough power to complete writing of buffers on power loss event. So that makes HW RAID redundant.

NeddySeagoon
28-09-2013, 12:43
Hardware raid is totally wasted unless you are using a raid level with redundency on a single core CPU. On a multicore CPU, the XORs only take a small fraction of one core.

Raid0 imposes no overhead at all, the data is written to alternate drives in the raid set.
Raid1 has the overhead of setting up N DMA transfers an a write, where there are N spindles in the raid set.

Raid5 and Raid6 both have to calulate redundent data on write and decode it on read.
A multicore CPU can do this without breaking into a sweat. So far so good. Thats all under normal operating conditions.

Under power fail conditions there is a nasty call the raid hole. During a write, power fails and data is only written to a subset of the drives in the set. Some form of battery cabup is required to protect against this. With software raid, it needs to be a UPS, since the system needs to complete the writes. With a hardware raid card, backing up the raid card RAM is enough to keep the drives consistent, the in flight write will complete when power is restored. However, what of data in the OS cache?

LinuxGam
28-09-2013, 11:35
Decided to remove the comments as its just gonna get into a trolling style thread :-)

ctype_alnum
28-09-2013, 10:51
I do enjoy the daily updates from experts on this post.

davids355
28-09-2013, 09:22
So is there any update on how long the servers will be sold out??

elcct
28-09-2013, 01:38
Quote Originally Posted by mike_
And the UPS is going to protect you from a dead PSU?

OVH have had power outages in the past, so it still can be an issue in a DC.

I honestly don't see what your problem is. You're complaining that not all of OVH's server choices don't precisely fit your particular needs? What, exactly, is wrong with them offering the hardware RAID option for those who need it? Eg: Promox VMs can run dreadfully slow because of high IO wait, and this only happens on softraid.
If you have dead PSU how do you know the data that goes to HW RAID is not just dead bits? You will get your data corrupted anyway.

I am just saying that OVH wasted a lot of money on RAID cards and someone/team that created specs of the servers were living in caves or something. There is really no need to have HW RAID unless you are prone to marketing blurb. That money could be spent on having 4 drives instead of two for example.

As of Proxmox. That's probably because it is badly written.

mike_
28-09-2013, 00:50
Quote Originally Posted by elcct
Yes, if you have your server in your garage and not in a DC with multiple power sources, even that - having UPS is much better than HW RAID.
And the UPS is going to protect you from a dead PSU?

OVH have had power outages in the past, so it still can be an issue in a DC.

I honestly don't see what your problem is. You're complaining that not all of OVH's server choices don't precisely fit your particular needs? What, exactly, is wrong with them offering the hardware RAID option for those who need it? Eg: Promox VMs can run dreadfully slow because of high IO wait, and this only happens on softraid.

elcct
27-09-2013, 23:08
Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGam
They have battery backup and will safely write the disks back to a safe position if things go wrong suddenly.
Still, you will have broken data. Just few more bytes written, if they reach the card... Better solution is having UPS. Also power loss is unlikely in DC situation, unless you are having your server in a garage then BBU makes "some" sense.
Alsp, what if card gets broken?

Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGam
I also checked out the driver downloads from MEGARaid and they all supply the full source code with them (I only checked Linux ones).
I was talking about for example recovery tools, which i doubt are open sourced.

Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGam
So most of your reasons against hardware RAID seem illogical or not even researched.
You are still driven by a marketing hype

Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGam
The main reason against using decent hardware RAID is the extra cost.
The main reason against using hardware RAID is that it is useless nowadays.
It is like you were advocating the use of separate co-processor like 387. Their time is over.

Quote Originally Posted by ctype_alnum
I take it you check through the source code and fully understand exactly what the application is doing? ie not reporting back or allowing access?
There are people who like this kind of stuff to look at. Also, yes i will understand.

Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGam
Really? The RAID card would cost over double what the server cost? How does that make sense? I am talking about the decent RAID cards they put in the pro servers here. Not some cheap thing off Ebay.
Can't you see how overpriced it is? I was anyway saying, that it makes sense in the way of taking processing off of main cpu.

Quote Originally Posted by JakeMS
BBU/Cache, useful during power loss...
Yes, if you have your server in your garage and not in a DC with multiple power sources, even that - having UPS is much better than HW RAID.

MichaelFindlay
27-09-2013, 22:40
I have contacted OVH in the past about my server which is now getting on to a year old, they advised me that they could not lower the cost closer to the line that new customers pay and to just "buy a new one". If you get your retentions in order it should save a lot of these issues.

ctype_alnum
27-09-2013, 16:21
Quote Originally Posted by elcct
So you should ask VMWare why they don't support software RAID. Maybe they have some deal with companies sitting on a pile of useless hardware raid cards?

You can get your data corrupted with hardware raid.

And another thing is that hardware raid tools are closed source. With recent NSA scandal, how do you know you don't have a backdoor?

I never install software on the server that is not open source.
I take it you check through the source code and fully understand exactly what the application is doing? ie not reporting back or allowing access?

lol.

LinuxGam
27-09-2013, 15:15
Quote Originally Posted by elcct
Hardware raid would make sense in Kimsufi as Atoms are pretty weak and resemble the era when hardware raid was vital.

Really? The RAID card would cost over double what the server cost? How does that make sense? I am talking about the decent RAID cards they put in the pro servers here. Not some cheap thing off Ebay.

LinuxGam
27-09-2013, 15:11
Quote Originally Posted by elcct
Proof?
They have battery backup and will safely write the disks back to a safe position if things go wrong suddenly.

I also checked out the driver downloads from MEGARaid and they all supply the full source code with them (I only checked Linux ones).

So most of your reasons against hardware RAID seem illogical or not even researched.

The main reason against using decent hardware RAID is the extra cost.

JakeMS
27-09-2013, 15:03
There is one thing Hardware raid offers over software raid that software can never provide..

BBU/Cache, useful during power loss...

elcct
27-09-2013, 12:23
Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGam
"less likely to cause data corruption"
Proof?

LinuxGam
27-09-2013, 11:42
Quote Originally Posted by elcct
You can get your data corrupted with hardware raid.
"less likely to cause data corruption"

elcct
27-09-2013, 11:38
Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGam
+1

You have the comfort knowing that your solution is 100% supported by ProxMox, you are not wasting CPU on hard drive IO. A crash or powercut is way less lightly to cause data corruption and..... the new Raid Cards with the SSD Cache are pretty awesome performance. You get much higher speeds than SATA drives, while still getting SATA sized RAIDED storage.

All in all I would say a much better solution than 2 Large SATA's or 2 small SSD's when you want to run a few or more VM's in ProxMox.

But then that's only my opinion.
So you should ask VMWare why they don't support software RAID. Maybe they have some deal with companies sitting on a pile of useless hardware raid cards?

You can get your data corrupted with hardware raid.

And another thing is that hardware raid tools are closed source. With recent NSA scandal, how do you know you don't have a backdoor?

I never install software on the server that is not open source.

LinuxGam
27-09-2013, 11:24
Quote Originally Posted by mike_
What about things like ESXi and Proxmox? Just because you don't need hardware RAID doesn't mean there aren't people with projects that do need it.
+1

You have the comfort knowing that your solution is 100% supported by ProxMox, you are not wasting CPU on hard drive IO. A crash or powercut is way less likely to cause data corruption and..... the new Raid Cards with the SSD Cache are pretty awesome performance. You get much higher speeds than SATA drives, while still getting SATA sized RAIDED storage.

All in all I would say a much better solution than 2 Large SATA's or 2 small SSD's when you want to run a few or more VM's in ProxMox.

But then that's only my opinion.

mike_
27-09-2013, 08:06
Quote Originally Posted by elcct
Also whoever created new offer had little knowledge of web project needs. With new offer i had really a hard time finding a good server.

For example they should ditch hardware raid
What about things like ESXi and Proxmox? Just because you don't need hardware RAID doesn't mean there aren't people with projects that do need it.

elcct
26-09-2013, 22:33
Also whoever created new offer had little knowledge of web project needs. With new offer i had really a hard time finding a good server.

For example they should ditch hardware raid - it is no longer sensible option when soft raid works just fine and is most of the time faster than hardware solutions. Hardware raid also adds another point of failure to the system.
Hardware raid was good like 4 years ago, where cpus couldn't keep up with the speed needs.
Hardware raid would make sense in Kimsufi as Atoms are pretty weak and resemble the era when hardware raid was vital.

2 small SSD drives - again, not enough for the site that can use the 64 or 128GB of ram to the full - too small or too slow or too little of them.

For example MG 128 would be brilliant config if had:
CPU from EG or dual MG cpu, 128GB Ram, 4x300GB SSD, Soft Raid and 1gbit connection

If price was increased by 50% i'd buy it.

HG configs are useless. Either too expensive in comparison to MG or lacking of features.

etc...

Trapper
26-09-2013, 18:58
Quote Originally Posted by fvigotti
3) an half way solution could be to roll older server in lower leagues, i mean, what was HG2012 now is no more in the price list, so you have problems handling his hardware once left from customers
if you place it as mHG2013 at lower price it could still compete, the same from all others, like MG2012 could live as EG2013 and so forth..
I agree with some of this, but the "so forth.." in this part has major problems.

OVH have always "cycled down" servers in this manner. The problem comes with the latest batch of ridiculous prices. They are having to pay for the hardware in the new KS's, and will not be able to cycle them down in the future.

HG to MG - yes
MG to EG - yes
EG to SP - yes
SP to KS - yes
KS to ... Oh, now it's broke...

OVH did not think far enough ahead on this, and placed the prices wrong (exactly as I said 150 posts ago).

Quote Originally Posted by elcct
Why not? This all can be scripted and you can buy new servers few days before lights out, so you don't pay twice for a server and can avoid set up fee.

Instead of setup fee, they should increase the price - take how long on average user stays with one server, divide your setup fee by that figure and add it to the price, it is simple.
If you want to avoid a setup fee, yes, you need to charge more. This is not what they have done.

By charging more, you can also drop the price later, this should also be done.

There must be a calculation out there for gaining a return on a server. You cannot say that it cost 960 and will rent for 20, so will be paid for in 48 months.

The reason you cannot work like this is that you will not get the full 20 after 36 months (or in OVH's case after 6 months if you bring out something better).

Therefore you need to start higher, and understand that a lower price later is OK. (does not matter if the price is paid by the same or a different customer.)

So, we are left with the same two options.:

1. Charge a setup fee, which some people do not like (mainly the people causing the churn)

2. Re-structure prices so that the start high, and reduce over time. This rewards those who keep servers for the life of the server...

OK, I just heard someone shout about setup fees again...

You say the put off new customers? Is that really true? OVH offer a server FREE for a month if you are a UK business. So the kind of NEW customer they are really after will not be affected at all.

~Trap

PS. Oles, still waiting for the invite...

elcct
26-09-2013, 17:35
Quote Originally Posted by fvigotti
i will not move the server every 3 months expecially if i have more than one, to save a setup price (obviously this should be reasonable i mean 1.5*monthly price or so.. )

but this doesn't create the huge barrier of setup price for new customers or to the possibility to try new servers.. i find that a good solution.. also to move the server you must have 2 servers at the same time for 1 month (to avoid downtime) so you will end to pay anywya that additional price
Why not? This all can be scripted and you can buy new servers few days before lights out, so you don't pay twice for a server and can avoid set up fee.

Instead of setup fee, they should increase the price - take how long on average user stays with one server, divide your setup fee by that figure and add it to the price, it is simple.

macole111
26-09-2013, 16:49
Quote Originally Posted by wii89
If they have kept the email support for KS 2012 servers I would have kept it.
Exactly, back to the turnover issue...

-macole111

wii89
26-09-2013, 15:48
Quote Originally Posted by macole111
All I really want at the moment is for 2012, 2011 etc Kimsufis to get their email support back. £60pm with no support suddenly, that is a joke!

-macole111
If they have kept the email support for KS 2012 servers I would have kept it.

LawsHosting
26-09-2013, 15:40
Quote Originally Posted by marks
the new ks are not the same as the old ones:
But are treated as if they are, no?

I mean, support and stuff btw

macole111
26-09-2013, 15:33
All I really want at the moment is for 2012, 2011 etc Kimsufis to get their email support back. £60pm with no support suddenly, that is a joke!

-macole111

vladinc
26-09-2013, 15:15
Quote Originally Posted by Starteck2002
They may be a different service in name Mark, but the specs are identical. Further to that, as a Customer, I expect (at the very least) to be notified of price increases and service changes by email - the onus is on OVH to make contact with their Customers and alert them to changes - not for the Customer to keep checking your forums 'just in case' something may have changed.

As you can see from my post count (this is my second post!) I don't frequent your forums often yet have been a client for a number of years. I wonder how many other clients you have that knew nothing of this price increase or service change.

A notification by email would ensure you have tried to get the message across and would no doubt save your support people some work. For a company that has over 150,000 servers deployed you do seem to do some things in the most awkward of ways.

As an aside, can you explain to me the differences between a KS2G and an mKS2G and why one costs 3 times as much as the other?
totally agree

wii89
26-09-2013, 14:59
Quote Originally Posted by Starteck2002

I was unaware of the increase in prices until I came to renew. That was also the same time I found you were selling the KS2G for £4.00 including VAT. I was paying £10.79 for the exact same spec, this has increased to £11.81. I contacted support and asked for a price reduction and an explanation of the increase. The price reduction was denied and there was no explanation of the increase.
+1 to this

Starteck2002
26-09-2013, 14:10
They may be a different service in name Mark, but the specs are identical. Further to that, as a Customer, I expect (at the very least) to be notified of price increases and service changes by email - the onus is on OVH to make contact with their Customers and alert them to changes - not for the Customer to keep checking your forums 'just in case' something may have changed.

As you can see from my post count (this is my second post!) I don't frequent your forums often yet have been a client for a number of years. I wonder how many other clients you have that knew nothing of this price increase or service change.

A notification by email would ensure you have tried to get the message across and would no doubt save your support people some work. For a company that has over 150,000 servers deployed you do seem to do some things in the most awkward of ways.

As an aside, can you explain to me the differences between a KS2G and an mKS2G and why one costs 3 times as much as the other?

marks
26-09-2013, 13:08
Quote Originally Posted by Starteck2002
I was unaware of the increase in prices until I came to renew. That was also the same time I found you were selling the KS2G for £4.00 including VAT. I was paying £10.79 for the exact same spec, this has increased to £11.81. I contacted support and asked for a price reduction and an explanation of the increase. The price reduction was denied and there was no explanation of the increase.

Unhappy? Of course I am - there are people out there that are on the same network, with the same company (OVH) who are paying 1/3 the price I am paying for servers.
the new ks are not the same as the old ones:
http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showpost.php?p=46611&postcount=1

The slight increase on prices is explained here:
http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showpost.php?p=52902&postcount=1



By the way, very good ideas coming through in this thread, and they've been forwarded on to Oles, that's for sure. Thanks for them

Kode
26-09-2013, 10:57
It's just another example of OVH's anti-customer practices, like the missleading SLA that used to be on kimsufis, in fairness, since the new design they have addressed that better.

It's a shame, because I really like OVH, but whinging about server turnover, when that turnover is caused 100% by themselves is *****ic.

If they want people to keep servers longer all they need to do is keep the prices inline with how they stack up against the new offerings. If a new server costs £40/mo, has twice the ram, and a better processor than a server you are paying £60/mo for it's hardly even a question, you would be retarded not to get a new server and transfer everything over, if your old servers price was dropped to even £38, it's a much harder decision as the time involved may outweigh the benefits, especially if the server is performing adequately.

It seems fairly obvious what Oles wants to do though, with all this talk of mobile contracts, he wants to keep the price of the old server high unless you say you want to move to a newer one, then they will offer to reduce your current server, it's a pretty ****ish move, and in all honesty would make me consider moving if I had to keep contacting them to ensure I got the best deal.

I pay for 2 of my servers 1 year in advance, so I already overpay based on what I would pay if I did it month by month and just switched to the new offerings, but I find the convenience outweighs the drawbacks.

fvigotti
26-09-2013, 10:29
Quote Originally Posted by elcct
People will not renew to 4th month, but buy new server again instead.
i will not move the server every 3 months expecially if i have more than one, to save a setup price (obviously this should be reasonable i mean 1.5*monthly price or so.. )

but this doesn't create the huge barrier of setup price for new customers or to the possibility to try new servers.. i find that a good solution.. also to move the server you must have 2 servers at the same time for 1 month (to avoid downtime) so you will end to pay anywya that additional price

fvigotti
26-09-2013, 10:27
Quote Originally Posted by fvigotti
my .02$

1) i'm agree with some on the forum on reducing older server prices when new comes out, this could help to reduce the turnover
about that.. if you are worried because on new server there is a huge dropdown in revenues not yet compensated by new sales, this could discourage refresh of servers offer from your side.. you could not drop old server price immediately but maybe start a gradual dropdown in 6 months ...
what I mean is , when HG2013 comes out in febraury, the old HG2012 should drop from 140$ to 80$, you could drop ((1/6)*(140-80)) * month so you don't get huge loss in earning, and the loss is partially compensated with new sales (yeah maybe buying an HG2012 (or equivalent) after february 2013 could save me those 6 months of slow price reduction but it cost time and i think that this could be a good compromise.. )

elcct
26-09-2013, 10:22
Quote Originally Posted by fvigotti
if you want the setup price on, you could place it at the 3rd month of service (so who get the server can have time to test it a bit before paying the setup price)
People will not renew to 4th month, but buy new server again instead.

fvigotti
26-09-2013, 10:03
my .02$

1) i'm agree with some on the forum on reducing older server prices when new comes out, this could help to reduce the turnover (an older server price should be aligned with the new one with same specs, if i payed 140€ for 32 gb ram, now a server with 32gb ram costs 80€ i should get that price, i have lot of servers on ovh, and i'm planning to move almost all of them, merging some to save €€€ , but if older server get a price reduction i will only move some (those which need really an upgrade)
also you could create a shop portion for these older servers (with reduced price which should be competitive anyway... ) to have the possibility to recycle them as dedicated servers before using for cloud services

2) decreasing the hardware refresh speed : BAD , i speak for myself of course but i have servers in some others dc in usa and europe, and i'm moving more and more servers on ovh because your AWESOME servers specs at low price so this is your real strength, find an alternative solution.

3) an half way solution could be to roll older server in lower leagues, i mean, what was HG2012 now is no more in the price list, so you have problems handling his hardware once left from customers
if you place it as mHG2013 at lower price it could still compete, the same from all others, like MG2012 could live as EG2013 and so forth..

4) about the setup price i'm not agree with it because sometimes i get a server and when there is a serious problem on it i'm forced to move because support is not your best merit (sometimes some routes (some racks) have more packet loss than others ) but fixing these newtork routing problems is impossible (probably is because some routes receive more ddos than others )
if you want the setup price on, you could place it at the 3rd month of service (so who get the server can have time to test it a bit before paying the setup price)

5) allowing some server customization, even with higher deploy time could show you what customers want more, allow to recycle some older hardware (leaving it available on customization cart with arranged prices)

Starteck2002
25-09-2013, 22:53
Well it's good to see that as a long term customer of OVH, I can't order more servers. As a bonus, I pay more for my old servers than those who were lucky enough to get servers with double spec for half the price. To add insult to injury my prices have gone up, I am expected to seek support in these forums and further to that I was never notified of any of this by OVH - I've discovered all this by reading these forums.

Today I visited the OVH site and was actually quite insulted by what I read here: http://www.ovh.co.uk/a1186.SoldOut

It's not the fault of the Customer that OVH are in this mess yet we are expected to to accept the blame.

I was unaware of the increase in prices until I came to renew. That was also the same time I found you were selling the KS2G for £4.00 including VAT. I was paying £10.79 for the exact same spec, this has increased to £11.81. I contacted support and asked for a price reduction and an explanation of the increase. The price reduction was denied and there was no explanation of the increase.

Unhappy? Of course I am - there are people out there that are on the same network, with the same company (OVH) who are paying 1/3 the price I am paying for servers.

It's good that OVH bring 'throw-away-servers' to the market at a super low price but we are all cirtainly paying the price now.

LawsHosting
25-09-2013, 22:51
Quote Originally Posted by Tz-OVH
They offer a few upgrades like USB thumbdrive & USB HDD addon.
AFAIK, they cost more to lease than if you'd buy one, and can not remove it if it's not needed anymore - this was years ago though.

Tz-OVH
25-09-2013, 18:37
Quote Originally Posted by TheBritoid
Let's make an example scenario.

I have a Kimsufi 2012, but I need a larger hard drive. Since OVH does not do upgrades, I order a Kimsufi 2013 and transfer everything and cancel the old server. Since OVH no longer sells that hardware anymore, that's a loss for them.

I am not saying OVH need to be as flexible as say Softlayer etc, but a limited scope of flexibility could surely help.
They offer a few upgrades like USB thumbdrive & USB HDD addon, so perhaps these could be explored more if in fact they don't want to open up the rack for an upgrade.

TheBritoid
25-09-2013, 15:56
Quote Originally Posted by Vmlweb
I think the reason they can deliver within 1 hour is because their hardware is fixed, though it would be nice to be able to customise it wouldn't help the backlog at all.
Let's make an example scenario.

I have a Kimsufi 2012, but I need a larger hard drive. Since OVH does not do upgrades, I order a Kimsufi 2013 and transfer everything and cancel the old server. Since OVH no longer sells that hardware anymore, that's a loss for them.

I am not saying OVH need to be as flexible as say Softlayer etc, but a limited scope of flexibility could surely help.

raxxeh
25-09-2013, 14:51
Quote Originally Posted by Mark1978
No, indeed installing a new hard drive in a server will take more time and hence be most costly than just provisioning a new server.
Incentives like extra speed (each year, extra 100mbps on the mSP for example), or each year you get an extra 12 ips for free (not monthly, just yearly), would go a long way.

Mark1978
25-09-2013, 12:18
Quote Originally Posted by Vmlweb
I think the reason they can deliver within 1 hour is because their hardware is fixed, though it would be nice to be able to customise it wouldn't help the backlog at all.
No, indeed installing a new hard drive in a server will take more time and hence be most costly than just provisioning a new server.

Vmlweb
25-09-2013, 10:38
Quote Originally Posted by TheBritoid
In my opinion, if OVH wants to stop "turnover", they need to stop changing their plans every day and offer the ability to (but in a limited way) upgrade an existing server.

Say I need an additional drive or a larger one, I have to cancel my existing server and order a new one.
I think the reason they can deliver within 1 hour is because their hardware is fixed, though it would be nice to be able to customise it wouldn't help the backlog at all.

TheBritoid
25-09-2013, 10:18
In my opinion, if OVH wants to stop "turnover", they need to stop changing their plans every day and offer the ability to (but in a limited way) upgrade an existing server.

Say I need an additional drive or a larger one, I have to cancel my existing server and order a new one.

Vmlweb
25-09-2013, 10:11
Does anyone know whether vRack orders have been stopped too or does it just take a while to deliver?
I ordered mine last Friday.

Shimon
24-09-2013, 12:17
Quote Originally Posted by ctype_alnum
19:35:33 up 143 days, 21:55, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

You were saying? Thats just one example, stop making sweeping statements.
AWS's problem is network uptime. They have a datacenter go down almost every month vs OVH's once a year.

Myatu
23-09-2013, 20:42
OVH's cloud is already in its 2nd incarnation in as many years. AWS hasn't changed in ages*. That's why one would prefer AWS - its predictable, you can plan with it.

* At last not to the point you can no longer create new instances.

ctype_alnum
23-09-2013, 20:35
Quote Originally Posted by Shimon
OVH can trash AWS. Better uptime @ a tenth of the price without all the marketing BS.
19:35:33 up 143 days, 21:55, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

You were saying? Thats just one example, stop making sweeping statements.

ctype_alnum
23-09-2013, 20:33
Quote Originally Posted by macole111
But it is the marketing BS that sells it, everyone knows Amazon but no one knows OVH.

-macole111
With AWS its not just about instances. Yes AWS costs quite a bit and you'll get nowhere near the kind of spec in a price comparison to ovh however with AWS its the complete package you get and other services they also offer at low prices such as storage etc. I had no problems starting up AWS instances today but still couldn't go to the ovh site and buy a machine......

macole111
23-09-2013, 19:42
But it is the marketing BS that sells it, everyone knows Amazon but no one knows OVH.

-macole111

Shimon
23-09-2013, 19:18
OVH can trash AWS. Better uptime @ a tenth of the price without all the marketing BS.

Andy
23-09-2013, 17:11
Even AWS is expensive compared to dedicated when you're talking single server resources.

macole111
23-09-2013, 16:00
OVH's private cloud offering is good, but it is far far too expensive for most clients. People will just go for a couple of dedicated server not the expense of a private cloud.

As for the public cloud people just use AWS.

-macole111

wii89
23-09-2013, 15:55
Quote Originally Posted by Gomjaba
High turnover - is that also an excuse for 0 communication ?
High turnover should be no excuse for 0 communication, they should be keeping the same amount of communication and not blaming it customers for the high turnover!!

Shimon
23-09-2013, 15:52
I've got a little bit of a problem. I couldn't renew my old server as the invoice was throwing an error and now I can't order a new server. As manual orders aren't being processed I'm left box less.

I use my box as a Java development box. Very little bandwidth use but I use a considerable amount of RAM. I was hoping to get the KS 16G.

Shimon
23-09-2013, 15:49
OVH needs to be pushing the cloud more.

Gomjaba
23-09-2013, 12:57
High turnover - is that also an excuse for 0 communication ?

ctype_alnum
23-09-2013, 11:40
I know this might be a surprise to some of you but generally if you are renting a server and lets say for example it has 16-32GB RAM, quad core, loads of storage and a good bandwidth allowance most people just keep that machine for 1-2 years as it does the job more than well enough. If you are hosting game servers, needs tons of storage (should have planned for that in advance to a certain degree) then you'll need a new server. This whole thing of swapping machines every 3-5 months is ridiculous unless its for the reasons above and you aren't just being greedy.

Trapper
23-09-2013, 09:44
Quote Originally Posted by elcct
Lease to own works fine ie with cars, but can't be applied to servers.
Actually, I do not think this is 100% right. For people who have a single server, and are adding all the time it is correct.

But for some of us with multiple servers, there are some projects which remain the same for years. I have two projects, each of which has a server to itself, which do not need upgrading. The requirement is not going to change in the next year, as it has not changed in the last few years.

I did look at lease to own when I took one of these servers, but OVH were almost as cheap as the colo cost when I got to own it. Therefore I chose OVH...

~Trap

w33brad
23-09-2013, 09:28
Thing is, they are really great servers here at OVH. And the price is so attractive that the only 3 reasons I can think competitors get business is

a) The customer doesn't know about OVH
b) They need reliable, quick, efficient support often
c) The DC's offered at OVH don't fit requirements

So realisticly, if they can continue providing the 2013 Kimi's for that price (perhaps with exception to 2G, then they will achieve the client base that they're looking for.

The old models should be price adjusted.
2013 models should remain roughly the same or increase slightly.
Instead of renewing the Kimi Range regularly (yearly or whatever they do), leave the current 2013 range in circulation for a few years, as they are cracking se rvers. And instead just upgrade the mSP range and that would still make entry level servers attractive and leave room for personal upgrading.

Many options to think about. I'm sure the other OVH forums have came up with some great idea's also.

elcct
23-09-2013, 09:15
Lease to own works fine ie with cars, but can't be applied to servers.

When your business grows, within time you would like to move to a better, bigger and faster server. It's not necessarily the case with a company car. You might drive the same one for 10 years and you'll be fine. Can't do that with a server.
These are usually obsolete within 2 years.

tekmobile
22-09-2013, 23:46
The best option for me would be when they release new servers set the price the same as existing ones and auto drop the price of the older ones thus removing the main reason users choose to upgrade.

for example I used to have a server for ~£18/m with a 500GB HDD then they released pretty much the same server but with a 1TB HDD for ~£12/m

Is it hard to find out why I expired the one at £18 for the one at £12 I get pretty much the same CPU/RAM but twice the HDD for £6/m less go figure......

LinuxGam
22-09-2013, 23:28
I think the majority of the cash goes into staff wages, rent, electricity, security etc.. So rent to buy is great, but might not adjust the price as much as you think.

I think they should just seriously up the prices of the 1 month contracts and then scale it down to what it is now or slightly less for 1 year contracts.

I would think that would solve the issue outright.

Andy
22-09-2013, 21:16
The problem with the rent to own idea is that you're left with an out of date server later which you might find hard to upgrade, depending on your future needs and availability of hardware. So it might be a good idea if you rent to buy short term (6 months?) but not longer than that in most cases. Unless of course your requirements won't be changing in which case it might be perfect for you, but I imagine for most their requirements will increase over time as their business expands and changes.

For example over time I need more HDD space to keep my file archive, even though the rest of the hardware doesn't need changing (yet).

w33brad
22-09-2013, 21:14
Quote Originally Posted by macole111
The problem with lease to own is that hardware repairs are often not covered afterwards and people will want their server shipped to them when you own it. But OVH servers are very custom and a doubt people will be able to get them to work. And it would cost OVH loads.

In theory it is good though.

-macole111
Of course there are creases with the idea - but all you need is an iron.
I'm sure a company such as OVH could use their knowledge to make that work...

LawsHosting
22-09-2013, 10:49
Quote Originally Posted by macole111
The problem with lease to own is that hardware repairs are often not covered afterwards
This is why most people co-lo within a few miles, not thousands.

I doubt OVH would offer intense support anyway, unless it's big bucks.

Lease-to-own is a good idea, if you don't continue to use OVH.

macole111
22-09-2013, 09:56
The problem with lease to own is that hardware repairs are often not covered afterwards and people will want their server shipped to them when you own it. But OVH servers are very custom and a doubt people will be able to get them to work. And it would cost OVH loads.

In theory it is good though.

-macole111

jtreal
22-09-2013, 09:01
It is obvious what has happened.

Everyone wanted 200mbps instead of 100mbps for a cheaper price.

You put yourselves in this stupid situation when you offer new servers which are significantly better than their predecessor, then to top it all off it is cheaper.

Whoever is in charge of your sales/pricing department needs a lashing. Right now those with the old SP 16 are paying more than the people with the mSP which is better. One solution would be to lower the cost of legacy servers and at least make them cost less/equal to the newer version.

Edit:
All I wanted was 200mbps instead and if a NIC upgrade was available I would have taken that option instead of having to migrate.

tekmobile
22-09-2013, 02:20
Would be nice to lease to own but I would like the option to have my internal HDDs upgraded at a later date while still keeping the same server that's my main reason for upgrading not usually higher specifications but larger HDDs.

w33brad
22-09-2013, 02:13
Lease to own. Honestly, I haven't heard of a better incentive to stick with the same server. That is absolutely brilliant. I cannot think of anybody who needs a long term server to pass up that opportunity...

crowarth
22-09-2013, 01:55
i had an old kimsufi for about a year and a half, the mSP was simply too good a price to pass over. ~£16 a month for 1tb disk, 1.2ghz atom, 2gb ram vs the ~32 a month for the mSP .. if my older server had been reduced in price, i'd have kept it. but the mSP is too good

as for my 2g order ...
http://chris.rowarth.co.uk/2g/

DigitalDaz
22-09-2013, 01:42
Never heard of the lease to own on servers before but its a brilliant idea

NexusIS
22-09-2013, 01:20
Quote Originally Posted by NeddySeagoon
Well, you may about to be billed. These forums document that being billed and your server actually being delivered can be widely separated events.
Then, I'm old and cynical.
Old and Cynical works most of the time

However, other than that my request was forwarded to the billing dept, and that they would be in touch shortly, I have no commitment from them.

This is however a step in the right direction. If they're clearing backlog to the point they can begin taking new orders (albeit non-traditionally) then there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

And it doesn't seem to be a large transport coming in the opposite direction.

Lets hope this momentum builds...

RapidSeeds
22-09-2013, 01:00
Lease to own would absolutely make me stick with the server for years

JakeMS
22-09-2013, 00:51
Just saw on another forum an idea which may help solve this mess.

What about a lease-to-own contract? This would provide a good incentive for people to stay with a server at least until they own it outright. Once owned outright OVH could offer to lower the price slightly, as they would then only have to charge for network/power/etc on the server as hardware would be paid up.

I know the servers are not exactly like most servers (Custom case, water cooling etc) but I'm sure OVH could box up the bits and send them if needed, wouldn't cost to much to get a rack case if moving.

What do you guys think of this?

Jasgriff
22-09-2013, 00:22
Quote Originally Posted by NeddySeagoon
It reminds me of an old story from many years ago ...

A man goes into a scrapyard to by a door for his Austin Allegro, the conversation goes something like this ...

(customner) How much are your doors for an Allegro?
(scrapyard owner) £5 each
(customer) They are only £4 along the road.
(scrapyard owner) Get a door there then
(customer) They are sold out
(scrapyard owner) Ours are only £4 when we don't have any too.

The moral is that while OVH may provide the lowest cost, its only useful if they will supply. Many new potential customers and existing customers needing to expand will be forced to look elsewhere.
I like that

Do you still own the car?

NeddySeagoon
21-09-2013, 23:57
Quote Originally Posted by NexusIS
Now on the upside - I *JUST* got notice that BHS support has forwarded my purchase request to their billing dept. It would seem I'm about to be added to the queue..
Well, you may about to be billed. These forums document that being billed and your server actually being delivered can be widely separated events.
Then, I'm old and cynical.

NeddySeagoon
21-09-2013, 23:53
It reminds me of an old story from many years ago ...

A man goes into a scrapyard to by a door for his Austin Allegro, the conversation goes something like this ...

(customner) How much are your doors for an Allegro?
(scrapyard owner) £5 each
(customer) They are only £4 along the road.
(scrapyard owner) Get a door there then
(customer) They are sold out
(scrapyard owner) Ours are only £4 when we don't have any too.

The moral is that while OVH may provide the lowest cost, its only useful if they will supply. Many new potential customers and existing customers needing to expand will be forced to look elsewhere.

jonlewi5
21-09-2013, 22:53
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
I bet the CEO of Hetzner will be sending Oles a big bunch of flowers as a thank you! or perhaps a gold Rolex

Christmas come early for the competition!!
its a known fact oles loves his champagne

NexusIS
21-09-2013, 22:08
Quote Originally Posted by macole111
Here is some good Co-lo that I have used for a while. It's a small DC but good connections.

http://www.econdc.com/server_colo.php

-macole111
Thanks - but I'm in N.America, and prefer something on a major exchange here (Montreal, Toronto, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas... )

Thats why the BHS datacenter (Montreal) is (was?) so enticing.. excellent connectivity, and all the traces I did showed very low latency.

Now on the upside - I *JUST* got notice that BHS support has forwarded my purchase request to their billing dept. It would seem I'm about to be added to the queue..

rickyday
21-09-2013, 22:02
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
... Meanwhile all the competitors are gleefully rubbing their hands together, thanking OVH for the increased business ...
I bet the CEO of Hetzner will be sending Oles a big bunch of flowers as a thank you! or perhaps a gold Rolex

Christmas come early for the competition!!

szisti
21-09-2013, 21:57
For personal usage over the last 5 years I've had 3 KS servers, just moved to an mSP a month ago
also have a 4G KS for backups which is 98% full, and cannot get another one or a 2G to store backups there

For the company I've now only 5 (from tomorrow 4) servers, as I cannot use KS for business without support and everything, so OVH forced me to move from KS to mSP
Also find it really stupid that I'm running 2 x mSP SSD and paying £10 more for them, only because I've ordered them before the price drop ..
And would need to order 3-4 mSPs now to replace the expired, and the still used, buy KS servers which again I cannot do
If this continues, I'll just move somewhere else

macole111
21-09-2013, 21:30
Here is some good Co-lo that I have used for a while. It's a small DC but good connections.

http://www.econdc.com/server_colo.php

-macole111

NexusIS
21-09-2013, 20:40
Quote Originally Posted by Andy
+1

I'm sat here waiting to buy 2 mSP's to last for the foreseeable future, and I can't. As a result I'm looking at alternatives including co-location, which means I'm unlikely to return to OVH if I have my own hardware.
Based on the limited info coming out, I'm in the same boat.

There are plenty of 2nd Gen E3/E5 based servers on the resale market right now (cough cough EBAY cough cough) at very affordable prices. I'm seriously thinking of picking up a 2-3 (need spare parts after all) and sticking a machine in a co-lo.

If OVH is not going to accept orders, then taking my business elsewhere seems to be the only alternative. CoLo is but one alternative. I cant sit forever waiting for them to decide what they want to do.

Andy
21-09-2013, 20:31
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
... Meanwhile all the competitors are gleefully rubbing their hands together, thanking OVH for the increased business ...
+1

I'm sat here waiting to buy 2 mSP's to last for the foreseeable future, and I can't. As a result I'm looking at alternatives including co-location, which means I'm unlikely to return to OVH if I have my own hardware.

Myatu
21-09-2013, 20:29
Quote Originally Posted by S0phie
At this stage we're only gathering the order requests to help us build the new business plan.
... Meanwhile all the competitors are gleefully rubbing their hands together, thanking OVH for the increased business ...

LawsHosting
21-09-2013, 18:14
Should have the choice of upgrading our existing servers, like ram & hdd...

Saying that, I've KS's, so that'll be a waste of time - since old KS are in the same bracket at these damn Maccy D ones......

I know I keep on about this, but I feel strongly about the ídíotic decision.

rickyday
21-09-2013, 16:40
Quote Originally Posted by jonlewi5
give us a reason to keep older server and we will keep them.
Well we will defintely be keeping our older servers now, in fear if we cancel them, it could be 6months till we can order a new one

jonlewi5
21-09-2013, 13:53
Well there goes one of the main benefits i found with ovh/kimsufi....
I loved the ability to quickly add capacity by ordering another server to throw in a cluster or a new project i had i could quickly get a server online.

I was contemplating replacing one of my servers, actually the newest, had it about 5 months as it no longer suits my needs (maxed capacity). I was going to be giving OVH more money, but looking at the new order process, i cant be given any time frame on when i can do this.

In my opinion, OVH have made their own problems and we are now paying the price for it.
give us a reason to keep older server and we will keep them.

S0phie
21-09-2013, 13:01
Quote Originally Posted by NexusIS
Is this an official policy now?
At this stage we're only gathering the order requests to help us build the new business plan. Send an email to the concerned support (ie: UK if you're a UK customer, CA is you're a North American customer etc...). We will then contact you as soon as orders are possible again.

macole111
21-09-2013, 00:01
Quote Originally Posted by gased
Really wise.
Ford once said: "If I'd asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for a better horse"
Just appoint as CEO someone who can at least understand the basic rules of business. Hell even Steve Ballmer would do.
The problem is that he owns a large part of the company and founded it, so he won't want to leave soon. A shame really as he can be completely useless at times, he still thinks that the company is just a couple of racks...

-macole111

gased
20-09-2013, 23:15
Quote Originally Posted by marks
Thanks very much for your feedback. I've passed on lots of the ideas left here to our headoffice. Thanks again
Really wise.
Ford once said: "If I'd asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for a better horse"
Just appoint as CEO someone who can at least understand the basic rules of business. Hell even Steve Ballmer would do.

DigitalDaz
20-09-2013, 23:14
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
@marks

The "thanks" we are looking for is some communication, followed by some action. Please please please keep communicating - even if you have to beat the information out of the French!

~Trap
MarkS is French

NexusIS
20-09-2013, 21:53
Quote Originally Posted by S0phie
Hi, it's not possible to get a new server right now. You can send us an email with your requirements (server? what is it used for? location? OS? duration? options? etc...) and we will contact you when it's possible to order again.
Is this an official policy now?

I have (as mentioned above) contacted the Canadian DC (support@ovh.ca) twice requesting to purchase a server based on information in this thread which suggested that manual orders were being accepted.

Both times, I have been politely (very politely) redirected here to watch for further developments.

I do sympathize with the support staff at this time. As a service provider myself, I can imagine the pressure being applied to you.

However, we, the collective group of current customers, and customer-want-to-bees are left without any clue as to when ordering will resume, and we are still in need of your services.

Trapper
20-09-2013, 19:09
Quote Originally Posted by marks
Thanks very much for your feedback. I've passed on lots of the ideas left here to our headoffice. Thanks again
@marks

The "thanks" we are looking for is some communication, followed by some action. Please please please keep communicating - even if you have to beat the information out of the French!

~Trap

S0phie
20-09-2013, 18:45
Quote Originally Posted by Shimon
I sent in a support request about 12 hours ago. Would it be possible to get a new server before the weekend?
Hi, it's not possible to get a new server right now. You can send us an email with your requirements (server? what is it used for? location? OS? duration? options? etc...) and we will contact you when it's possible to order again.

marks
20-09-2013, 18:38
Thanks very much for your feedback. I've passed on lots of the ideas left here to our headoffice. Thanks again

sdousley
20-09-2013, 18:00
Quote Originally Posted by NexusIS
I've contacted support (Canadian DC) twice since this started - both times I've been denied, and directed here to watch for further developments....

If this lasts much longer, my business is walking elsewhere...

(not that they're not sympathetic... but they're apparently not allowed to take any orders at this time)
This is what I don't get when Oles' first post, on this very thread, clearly stated that manual orders can (and would) be processed, they just didn't want all the automated orders coming through, which is fair enough.

raxxeh
20-09-2013, 16:16
Quote Originally Posted by NexusIS
I've contacted support (Canadian DC) twice since this started - both times I've been denied, and directed here to watch for further developments....

If this lasts much longer, my business is walking elsewhere...

(not that they're not sympathetic... but they're apparently not allowed to take any orders at this time)
Forward the conversation to Oles@ovh.net and explain to him that you need a server.

NexusIS
20-09-2013, 14:00
Quote Originally Posted by Shimon
I sent in a support request about 12 hours ago. Would it be possible to get a new server before the weekend?
I've contacted support (Canadian DC) twice since this started - both times I've been denied, and directed here to watch for further developments....

If this lasts much longer, my business is walking elsewhere...

(not that they're not sympathetic... but they're apparently not allowed to take any orders at this time)

Shimon
20-09-2013, 12:32
I sent in a support request about 12 hours ago. Would it be possible to get a new server before the weekend?

Myatu
19-09-2013, 22:32
Quote Originally Posted by DigitalDaz
The only people OVH were competing with with the new offers was themselves.
+1.

ricardo81
19-09-2013, 18:13
I totally understand why they did this and am glad they took swift action rather than dig the hole deeper for themselves and threaten their own existence or quality of service.

Quite simply their latest prices were far too much of a drop for anyone to continue with older servers who were paying month to month. I bought a 32GB server for £70 after VAT about 40 days ago and the new price is something like £45. I was thinking the very same thing, why not switch to the cheaper package for the same hardware? Or buy two server to replace the old one?

If I need any more servers then it seems I have to simply contact them.

FWIW I think the lower range servers should not have the option of being paid monthly. Those Kimsufi servers at the very least could be on 6 month deals.

sdousley
19-09-2013, 16:29
Quote Originally Posted by grzemach
I'm not sure they fill all previous orders. Maybe after that they will do it.
The message that I quoted strongly suggests to me that they will process any order. It doesn't say that this will only be on certain types of server.

Just says that they've stopped automatic orders to stop the turnover, which as someone who is trying to be a brand new customer, is not the case.

If someone from OVH could confirm if you are taking ANY manual orders, or if there are some restrictions, that would be great. If there are no restrictions, if you could confirm how I'd go about ordering a KS 2G. (Yes, I know there'll be quite some wait time, but I'm happy with that)

Thanks
Steve

DigitalDaz
19-09-2013, 16:04
Someone else made a good point on another forum.

The only people OVH were competing with with the new offers was themselves.

I don't know anywhere else as cheap with the old offers. There were many quite similar but overall OVH was still the best value.

Then they intruduce the new offers to undercut..... guess who? OVHs existing packages. Of course we would take up the offer, we would be crazy not to.

Many of us existing clients will be using some form of virtualization too and so moving clients between hosts is trivial anyway. Even more so if you have a vrack.

Ricksterm
19-09-2013, 15:54
I really do think the older servers should see a reduction in price over time or there being some incentives for people to keep them.

I have a 2012 Kimsufi R-8G and Plesk panel which now comes to £37.51 per month. The brand new KS-16G is way better and would only come to £28 including plesk panel again. I was very tempted to order one when they were released but the huge wait time put me off. I do think the older servers are now an unfair price and should see a reduction to match the new prices. Either that or OVH clearly put the new servers up at a way too cheap price to begin with!

OVH created the problems here with turnover especially with people who contact them for a discount on their older server being specifically told to order a new one and to let the old server expire, the next thing we know OVH are saying they are concerned with server turnover! The logic here does not compute.

Again, make sure older customers are happy and see incentives to keep their old server and I would happily keep my older server. I do not need the hassle of moving to another server anyway!

grzemach
19-09-2013, 13:06
Quote Originally Posted by sdousley
Is this also possible on a Kimsufi? or only the "professional" servers?

I'd like to order a Kimsufi, if nothing else just to get on the queue for personal use. Called your guys this morning, and was told that you weren't accepting ANY orders for KS at the moment.
I'm not sure they fill all previous orders. Maybe after that they will do it.

sdousley
19-09-2013, 12:01
Quote Originally Posted by oles@ovh.net
In the meantime, if you have new projects which oblige you to rent new servers, please don't
hesitate to contact us so that you can place an order manually. We have the server stock but we
don't want to deliver it and continue this high turnover cycle.
Is this also possible on a Kimsufi? or only the "professional" servers?

I'd like to order a Kimsufi, if nothing else just to get on the queue for personal use. Called your guys this morning, and was told that you weren't accepting ANY orders for KS at the moment.

Mark1978
19-09-2013, 10:53
Quote Originally Posted by Vmlweb
Maybe you could offer old servers for an even cheaper price.
This way the old servers would still all be used as well.

They do, it's called kimsufi.

Vmlweb
19-09-2013, 10:44
Maybe you could offer old servers for an even cheaper price.
This way the old servers would still all be used as well.

alex
19-09-2013, 10:19
I just hope Oles knows what hes doing......
I don't think so, this is a reason one month the IPs are £0.50, the next is £1 in a couple months it will be £10000 or what ever he decide. The server prices do exactly the same - I call this f***ups as business is not steady or without any plan.

grzemach
19-09-2013, 09:14
I would suggest 1-2% lover price on each month of having server, so after 3 years that will be 36-72%...maybe first year 1%, second 2%...
That should stop changing servers just because of price.

NexusIS
19-09-2013, 06:25
Quote Originally Posted by tominglis
I've had another think about this and I think the following would be best for OVH's business and customers:

- Stop offering your cheapest 2 - 3 Kimsufi servers, I don't think these can be very profitable for you, even at scale, and most peoples' needs at this level would be met by a good VPS.
100% in agreement - below 2 core and ~8GB, a VPS is likely to be a better bang-for-the-buck, and overall a better income source.

- Rationalise the rest of your product range around your FS, SP (4/8 core), EG (6/12 core), MG (8/16 core), HG and Big HG (16/32 core) brands, and reduce the number of options.
I would even dare go further and suggest that they stop keeping inventory online. There's a cost to keeping x-many servers available all the time that eats into the bottom line, reducing profitability.

Customization however is where additional income streams are possible. Why only limit that to the highest end systems?

- Discount contracts for old hardware when you release new hardware on an annual basis (to discourage people switching to the new servers).
I think this is the only true answer to churn. When v4 E3/E5 come online, the servers with v3 chips get prices automatically reduced to keep them attractive, and the new series comes in at the old price (or some such model that keeps OVH competitive).

- Offer old hardware on a separate page with the discounted prices for four years.

- Sell hardware older than four years, or use it to equip a data centre in a developing country with high internet growth.
I was actually surprised not to see this. Old H/W isnt as power or cooling efficient. There's a good business case to get rid of it, which is a reason to want churn.

- Provide a discount for booking a server for 3 months (2.5%), 6 months (5%), 12 months (10%), 36 months (20%), and increase the base price accordingly to ensure profitability.
As long as it remains optional. Based on quotes I received over the last 6 weeks from 15 DCs in N.America, the forced term contract is dead.

That does mean that OVH will need to look to recover server costs in 'x' months, and make that their target discounted rate, scaling the pricing as necessary, and assuming a certain amount of re-use of the servers (and bargain bin the rest). But that's not a hard calc to do for someone in accounting

tominglis
19-09-2013, 05:30
I've had another think about this and I think the following would be best for OVH's business and customers:

- Stop offering your cheapest 2 - 3 Kimsufi servers, I don't think these can be very profitable for you, even at scale, and most peoples' needs at this level would be met by a good VPS.

- Rationalise the rest of your product range around your FS, SP (4/8 core), EG (6/12 core), MG (8/16 core), HG and Big HG (16/32 core) brands, and reduce the number of options.

- Discount contracts for old hardware when you release new hardware on an annual basis (to discourage people switching to the new servers).

- Offer old hardware on a separate page with the discounted prices for four years.

- Sell hardware older than four years, or use it to equip a data centre in a developing country with high internet growth.

- Provide a discount for booking a server for 3 months (2.5%), 6 months (5%), 12 months (10%), 36 months (20%), and increase the base price accordingly to ensure profitability.

NexusIS
19-09-2013, 04:38
Quote Originally Posted by elcct
I would never sign a 3+ month contract on a server or pay a setup fee.

That model was probably alright a decade ago, but with current speed of technological changes it is no longer good idea client wise.
Having just reviewed 15 potential suppliers over the last 6 weeks in an attempt to move my hosting business away from Rackspace, I agree totally.

The fixed term contract is dead. Of the 15 quotes I received, only 2 eve offered a fixed term price. Monthly is now the norm - but some providers are offering discounts if you stay longer terms (sorry - not naming names - that's their proprietary business model).

The differentiation is mainly support SLAs, and related functionality.

I also note that virtually all DCs these days sell off old inventory (outright) once it reaches age. There is a huge surplus of 1st gen E3/E5 XEON servers from HP, DELL and IBM available on the resale market, prime for those who want to go for a co-location model. If you're into that, a 1U or 2U colo rack + power can be found for fairly reasonable prices -- but you're on the hook for supporting it.

I realize thats not for everyone (myself included). Thats why we come to DCs like OVH.

elcct
19-09-2013, 01:31
I would never sign a 3+ month contract on a server or pay a setup fee.

That model was probably alright a decade ago, but with current speed of technological changes it is no longer good idea client wise.

NexusIS
19-09-2013, 00:12
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
First, welcome to the forum..!
Unfortunate circumstances, but thank you all the same


Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
Contact OVH directly, I believe if you explain the situation, you will be provided a manually created order.

~Trap
When I contacted them they indicated they were unable to take manual orders, and I should voice my concerns over the situation here (thus my presence.)

The people at OHV are not the issue - I've been treated well by them. My concern lies with a company who suddenly turns off the supply chain during a re-evaluation. In 12 years, I've re-evaluated the market conditions many times, resulting in some major and many minor adjustments to my business.

However, I've never left customers (existing, or new) out cold during the process.

chostwales
18-09-2013, 20:20
Quote Originally Posted by village_i_diot
I'm not a fan for setup fee's but I am all for having a mobile phone type contract, they wont be the first to do it.

My suggestions would be :

1. discounted monthly cost for agreeing to 6/12/18 month contract.
2. guarantee no price increases during the term of your contract (feel free to reduce them though if prices drop).
3. if keeping the KS range at the same price range then set a minimum payment value on server orders/renewals to something like £30, so if ordering a Ks2g basically you have to pay for the year, a ks4 you have to pay for 3 months at a time. It won't effect the pro servers but it could stop kids coming and buying a ks2g for a couple of months and then vanishing.
This would never work.

We all know what kind of support OVH can provide. Pre-August 2013 for either Kimsufi or OVH... It could end up in more court cases where clients counter sue for not warranting their side of the support agreement etc etc. The worse of it would be also these arguements would be potentially very technical based which I can speak within the UK (not sure rest of the EU) is very must on the customer side of things... Which in the long and short run would cause more headaches and costs for OVH.

It would not be right for a supplier to contractually lock someone in for a minimum duration and then fail to provide the service and not provide any support backup. Remember currently us using OVH services is at our risk. Not theirs and they make us very aware they will not be held liable.... where if they kept us contractually in for a minimum time... then they could become liable and I don't think OVH want that pressure.

village_i_diot
18-09-2013, 20:03
I'm not a fan for setup fee's but I am all for having a mobile phone type contract, they wont be the first to do it.

My suggestions would be :

1. discounted monthly cost for agreeing to 6/12/18 month contract.
2. guarantee no price increases during the term of your contract (feel free to reduce them though if prices drop).
3. if keeping the KS range at the same price range then set a minimum payment value on server orders/renewals to something like £30, so if ordering a Ks2g basically you have to pay for the year, a ks4 you have to pay for 3 months at a time. It won't effect the pro servers but it could stop kids coming and buying a ks2g for a couple of months and then vanishing.

NeddySeagoon
18-09-2013, 19:46
rickyday,

With the 2013 KS, thats somewhat oversimplified. The 100Mb/sec is a cap. The actual rate you get can be much lower. We don't know what the contention on OVHs internal network is, nor how it is managed.

DigitalDaz
18-09-2013, 19:45
Even so, the 2G was just an example but the new restrictions and the complete lack of support for ANY Kimi make them far less likely to be used for business purposes.

rickyday
18-09-2013, 19:41
Quote Originally Posted by DigitalDaz
Agreed but lets just consider this, say you had 1x100GB link.

10 x £2.50 Kimsufis could consume 1GB of that link = £25.00
100 x £2.50 Kimsufis could consume 10GB of that link = £250.00
1000 x £2.50 Kimsufis could consume ALL of that link = £2500.00

Whats a £2.50 Kimsufi ideal for? Seedbox for p2p and then sucking it down over SSH. Best £2.50 you'll ever spend as a client, worst £2.50 worth of business you would ever want as a supplier.
Didn't realise you were referring to just the 2G, I was referring to all Kimsufi servers.

DigitalDaz
18-09-2013, 19:20
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
That is an amazing amount of revenue to just throw away.
Agreed but lets just consider this, say you had 1x100GB link.

10 x £2.50 Kimsufis could consume 1GB of that link = £25.00
100 x £2.50 Kimsufis could consume 10GB of that link = £250.00
1000 x £2.50 Kimsufis could consume ALL of that link = £2500.00

Whats a £2.50 Kimsufi ideal for? Seedbox for p2p and then sucking it down over SSH. Best £2.50 you'll ever spend as a client, worst £2.50 worth of business you would ever want as a supplier.

rickyday
18-09-2013, 19:10
Quote Originally Posted by DigitalDaz
stop selling Kimsufis and get them off the network.
That is an amazing amount of revenue to just throw away.

DigitalDaz
18-09-2013, 18:08
Just another quick one:

OVH, try and put yourselves in others shoes to and see what you would do.

As an example, one of the servers I had sorted out for someone was a lady working from home running a small business. She had one of the the small Kimsufis, I think it was costing about £200 per year including VAT. She was also paying for it a year at a time too, no monthly payment.

So she goes to renew just about the time the new offers come out. What does she do?

Maybe upgrade to mSP or get a new 2G that will do the same job as the old one but now costs less than £30 for the year. What would you do OVH?

There's your answer to a lot of the churn and can you blame them??

DigitalDaz
18-09-2013, 17:59
The inconsistency of OVH I would imagine is what puts many off as has been pointed out.

If I could rely on OVH, I would buy some private cloud tomorrow and be a happy bunny but I know I can't

On paper OVH nework is brilliant, plenty of capacity etc ut you just cannot plan ahead at all. Even if the network is running at only half capacity today, who know whether tomorrow OVH will release a £1 server and then all the bandwidth is consumed by people downloading their warez.

Though the Kimsufis were always billed as personal servers there were a hell of a lot of people using them for full blown business reasons. They were technically capable, support was reasonably good, as was availability. They lacked very few features that the OVH models had. Remember the days of the Kimis with about 4 disks in??

Now what do we have. The Kimsufis are restricted to one IP, support is only by forum, most have a single disk, there is no option to have any NAS etc for backup. They are now truly in the personal market but how many thousands of them are there? What are they being used for?

OVH should stop this race to the gutter, stop selling Kimsufis and get them off the network.

Either that or start selling servers with truly guaranteed bandwidth even if it means heavy capping.

wii89
18-09-2013, 17:48
What is OVH up to not selling their bread and butter!!

Must be something big not to sell any severs.......

I don't think even OVH know what they are doing.

NeddySeagoon
18-09-2013, 17:13
I can't wait for servers to be availble again.
I have a KS-8G from December 2012 at a cost of £24.99 +VAT.
The 8G is no longer available,

I have lost email support so my value for money has gone down but the price hasn't
The 8G, no longer available, fits in between the new 4G and 16G.
The 16G would give me more RAM for 2/3 cost. I can't wait to move, or for my cost to be brought into line with new offerings. A 1/3 saving (approx) for a better server, is well worth having.

My server is a hobby toy, not a business requirement. I'm looking away from OVH too but I will probably give it a month or two as this thread shows that OVH recognise the issues and are looking at solutions, even if the no new orders meanwhile is a bit drastic.

Pobman
18-09-2013, 16:40
The oldest server I have is from 2009, so the perfect length of time by your stated standards. However while the CPU power of the server is OK still for my needs other aspects like the available RAM in it are getting too low. Perhaps under such circumstances giving the option to increase RAM or other such resources, where possible, would also help keep people from switching.

Also, as others have stated, rewarding long term users by scaling the monthly costs of servers down as time passes. I understand your current model relies on users like myself who have had a server for 3+ years effectively subsidising those people who grab a new one every 6 months but thats just not viable. I am very much at the point now that I need to cancel that 2009 server and get a new one because for 10 pounds less a month I can now have 250% more RAM and 50% more storage space ... so why should I keep paying more to get less when I could really use those extra resources?

Or what about going how the mobile phones run, with cheaper long term contracted plans of 12,24 months and more costly month to month contracts ... again rewarding financially those who stick with the same hardware for longer periods.

However you look at it the point is the current system rewards those who chop and change all the time, and penalises people who stick around using the same server ... which is the exact opposite of what you want.

JakeMS
18-09-2013, 14:53
I guess, instead of saying it with threads, we can say it with servers instead!



:-P

But in all seriousness, doubt it'll have too much of an effect, remember, people still have to renew so they still have money incoming .

rickyday
18-09-2013, 14:34
I really am quite concerned with the whole "No orders anymore"

I think this is playing with fire for OVH, I really hope this doesn't have a detrimental effect on the business.

No more Kimsufi orders I can understand but to put every single server on hold seems unbelievable.

Shocked to be honest that everything is SOLD OUT, hate to think what financial implications this will have on OVH. :/

I just hope Oles knows what hes doing......



A dedicated server company that doesn't sell servers???

------- EDIT ----------

On the plus side I cant help but stick up a bit for Oles!

He tried this new server (KS 2G), something that no one had ever ever tried before, Oles tried to change the whole dedicated server landscape with the KS 2G! (and partially the mSP)

Yes it backfired, but part of me admires him for taking the risk and trying to innovate and be the market leader that the competition can only dream of being.

Trapper
18-09-2013, 14:29
First, welcome to the forum..!

Quote Originally Posted by NexusIS
What concerns me (now) is that this company - one I was ready to entrust with being the basis for my own business - is ready, willing and obviously quite able to pull the rug out from underneath their clients anytime they want.

That is a huge concern.
...Seriously, you need to consider the Communication you will get from OVH as well.

Quote Originally Posted by NexusIS
When you cut your customers, and potential customers off like this it sends the signal that you don't care about them - that you're only in it for yourself.

And that has me re-evaluating whether OVH is the sort of company I should be bringing my business to. Now that I know you've done this I have to assume you're going to do it again.
Contact OVH directly, I believe if you explain the situation, you will be provided a manually created order.

Quote Originally Posted by NexusIS
As the old saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you..."

I'm not apt to permit second chances.
Can't help but think of GW Bush when I here this...!

~Trap

Trapper
18-09-2013, 14:24
Quote Originally Posted by 7B9
I'm sure many customers are peeved which is why they are commenting. OVH is currently a server provider who isn't selling any servers. It's like McDonalds isn't selling Big Mac's anymore because the beef is too popular.
This may well be true, but as Alcoholics Anonymous would say, the first step is admitting you have a problem.

OVH have indeed caused themselves a headache, we are still in the hangover stage...

What we need is a plan (and they asked us to help with it ) so we are all putting forward ideas.

As I said in my first post in this thread, we need a range of different customers to pitch in, so the plan works for everyone. It is almost a given that the status quo cannot continue.

For those who say:
No Price Rises,
No Setup Fee,
No Minimum Contract
...because I wanna chop and change..

You are missing the point..! You are the ones who are causing the problem (yes -OVH are forcing you to).

Something needs to change.

~Trap

NexusIS
18-09-2013, 14:16
As a business owner, I consider this whole sudden "we're stopping selling servers" to be a farce.

I've just spent the last month reviewing options for moving my business away from Rackspace, reviewing a dozen different datacenters, getting quotes on custom configs, ranking my options... and then THE DAY I'm ready to pull the trigger, I'm not able to do it.

Honestly - I dont care if it takes 72 hours to get a certain type of server.

I know these things are not always going to be sitting around. Its not a good business model to keep a lot of high end inventory, and as such, I dont expect it to be built overnight either. The ordering page tells me this, and I feel OVH provides me with considerable insight into their process. Its not like OVH is keeping anyone in the dark.

What concerns me (now) is that this company - one I was ready to entrust with being the basis for my own business - is ready, willing and obviously quite able to pull the rug out from underneath their clients anytime they want.

That is a huge concern.

Certainly, a sustainable, and profitable business model is required on OVH's side for them to continue. There is no question in that.

However...

When you cut your customers, and potential customers off like this it sends the signal that you don't care about them - that you're only in it for yourself.

And that has me re-evaluating whether OVH is the sort of company I should be bringing my business to. Now that I know you've done this I have to assume you're going to do it again.

As the old saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you..."

I'm not apt to permit second chances.

7B9
18-09-2013, 13:31
I'm sure many customers are peeved which is why they are commenting. OVH is currently a server provider who isn't selling any servers. It's like McDonalds isn't selling Big Mac's anymore because the beef is too popular.

rickyday
18-09-2013, 13:29
On the plus side, its great to see so many replies to this thread and soo many ideas, especially from newer forum users signing up just to reply, that is a breath of fresh air and a welcome sight.

This thread has certainly grabbed everyones interest, take a look at these stats from yesterday.


rickyday
18-09-2013, 13:10
Quote Originally Posted by Andy
Yes, I do think it's worth it. It will stop fly by night customers that OVH wants to get rid of in the first place.

At least if you offer "monthly but costs more" or "monthly with contract and costs a bit less" then people have a choice.
You have to realise though just how many customers OVH are going to lose if they implement this.

If OVH lose masses of customers, then the lost revenue will then be passed on to existing customers, you would be happy for your server price to be increased?

What we need is an accountant to do some sums for us.



OVH was built on the fact that people could order servers and cancel them whenever they wanted and order new ones, yes I admit there is a problem with server turnover now, this issue has only been accelerated by OVH introducing the Big Mac Meal Server (2G)

That was the mistake that OVH made in my opinion, introducing this ridiculously priced server into the mix, they shot themselves in the foot with that server, and people may not agree with me now, but I look forward to reviewing things in say 1 years time and I believe that I will be proven right regarding the KS 2G.

7B9
18-09-2013, 13:10
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
Do you guys really think that mobile style contracts is going to be a viable proposition for OVH?

Do you not think there are going to be masses of customers that will not want to sign in to lengthy contracts and will simply leave and go elsewhere?

12 Month mobile style contracts in my opinion are certainly not the way to go, they will drive people away to competition that don't require this.
I for one would move to another company if these kind of contracts were introduced. I don't want to be locked in to such a long contract especially when OVH moves the goalposts constantly like increasing costs for DDoS protection, making servers unavailable when you need them and so forth.

I think rolling 1-3-6-12 month billing without a long term contract is best, they just need to fix the pricing for existing customers to entice them to stick with the server they have instead of ordering new servers.

Andy
18-09-2013, 13:07
Yes, I do think it's worth it. It will stop fly by night customers that OVH wants to get rid of in the first place.

At least if you offer "monthly but costs more" or "monthly with contract and costs a bit less" then people have a choice.

rickyday
18-09-2013, 13:05
Do you guys really think that mobile style contracts is going to be a viable proposition for OVH?

Do you not think there are going to be masses of customers that will not want to sign in to lengthy contracts and will simply leave and go elsewhere?

12 Month mobile style contracts in my opinion are certainly not the way to go, they will drive people away to competition that don't require this.

elcct
18-09-2013, 13:01
If new offer is better than the old, switch is a no-brainer

Also OVH stopped being attractive as more and more companies offer similar or better service for the same price (i mean in the range of EG-MG servers)

I wrote somewhere in this forum earlier that most of the new configs make no sense for a large website. Probably the best one is MG Raid Soft. Problem with that config is that it has slower cpu than EG server (where is the logic?)

Another mistake was cutting bandwith to 200mbit on EG servers. I used one EG server to serve static content. That cut made me buy around 12-15 Kimsufi servers of which price was similar to the EG server and i was again able to use around 1gbps. Once you started playing with bandwidth again i cancelled those Kimsufis and moved to another company.

Trapper
18-09-2013, 12:41
Quote Originally Posted by tominglis
I think that OVH should:

- Have free setup and a minimum 6 month+ contract, or paid setup and 1 month+ contract.

- List four years' worth of machines on their website for purchase. The current year would be given prominence and built to order as now, but the other three years' computers would show up on a separate page as and when they are available, at set prices, which are discounted to make them more financially attractive than the new servers.

- Set up a data centre in a country with substantial recent growth in internet use like Kenya, and equip it with servers which are returned and are older than 4 years.
Welcome tominglis, and some solid ideas...!

~Trap

tominglis
18-09-2013, 12:37
I think that OVH should:

- Have free setup and a minimum 6 month+ contract, or paid setup and 1 month+ contract.

- List four years' worth of machines on their website for purchase. The current year would be given prominence and built to order as now, but the other three years' computers would show up on a separate page as and when they are available, at set prices, which are discounted to make them more financially attractive than the new servers.

- Set up a data centre in a country with substantial recent growth in internet use like Kenya, and equip it with servers which are returned and are older than 4 years.

Mark1978
18-09-2013, 12:37
Anyway the best solution is you have large discounts for longer term contracts, currently there is no discount at all. It could be graded e.g. 3 months 10%, 6 months 20%, 1 year 50% off. Very deep discount means you are likely to look very seriously at the year long option.

Trapper
18-09-2013, 12:36
Lots of ideas flowing... Are you listening Oles..?

@Myatu:
The thread, and question from Oles was about Dedicated Servers. I do agree however that ALL services need to be predictable.

@rickday:
I think most of us look at a contract in the mobile style, you take it out for a period, but pay monthly.

@all:
Maybe we could look at a setup fee which is waived if the server is taken with a minimum of 1 year.

My Servers at Fastosts always had a minimum of 1 year, which (until the last one) was never a problem to me...

We are, after all trying to stop the churn, rather than penalise those who take servers for longer periods...

~Trap

Mark1978
18-09-2013, 12:32
I have to add, the ability to replace servers with new ones was one of the main reasons we chose OVH for our business.

Myatu
18-09-2013, 12:28
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
P.S.: I wouldn't mind however, a yearly (or shorter) contract, that is payable by the month (a la mobile contracts). This way, OVH is guaranteed that I keep the server for a certain amount of time, but I can remain paying by the month, which I prefer over a lump sum for the duration of that contract.
Come to think of that, that would be an ideal solution. Keep the offer for people to pay by the month, so you're not forcing something on them. But the month-by-month offer will cost more than those who decide to take out a 3, 6 or 12 month contract - each with an increasing amount of discount based on length of contract. This will lock the customer in, will also lock the specifications / features in, and give an incentive to take out a longer contract for the discount you receive.

7B9
18-09-2013, 12:27
I currently have two servers and I've had about 6 total. The only reason I have ever changed servers is to get the new pricing. I didn't ever need the new hardware specifications but the lower price each month was worth the hassle in setting up a new server.

Even now I'm paying 33% more for each of my servers than what their equivalent costs now. And I was planning to replace those servers with a new server when stock came in, again only to get the lower pricing.

So my advice OVH, if you want to lower turnover it's time to adjust existing customers prices to be inline with your latest offerings. I know from reading the thread so far I'm just another voice in the choir saying the same thing but I'm saying it anyway because I'm in the same mind set as all the other people here.

Quote Originally Posted by Mark1978
However to underline it, we contacted OVH to say can we get a price match on one of our existing servers to the ones available now. We were told no; have to let that one expire and get a new one. Then you complain there is too much turnover..
I did the same thing and was told the same as you were.

wii89
18-09-2013, 12:27
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
and have to pay 3 or 6 months upfront?

With professional servers that is a fair wad of cash, £120+ for mSP for 3 months or £240+ for 6months, certainly don't agree with that.

Not everyone has that kind of money to splash out in one go whereas monthly payments are manageable.
Monthly payments but tied into a 3 or 6 month contract.

Mark1978
18-09-2013, 12:27
Of course people are going to switch to new servers if new ones with better deals are available.

However to underline it, we contacted OVH to say can we get a price match on one of our existing servers to the ones available now. We were told no; have to let that one expire and get a new one. Then you complain there is too much turnover..

rickyday
18-09-2013, 12:19
Quote Originally Posted by wii89
+1 for the minimum contract to get the servers I say 3-6 months should be applied to any server.
and have to pay 3 or 6 months upfront?

With professional servers that is a fair wad of cash, £120+ for mSP for 3 months or £240+ for 6months, certainly don't agree with that.

Not everyone has that kind of money to splash out in one go whereas monthly payments are manageable.

It will certainly reduce server churn, it will drive customers away, might be an option for some but certainly not for all.

Myatu
18-09-2013, 12:08
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
@Myatu:
Moore's Law means this is a fast moving business. So offers need to change, as Oles states in his post "regular release of new features". The problem this time was the huge step.
By change, I do not mean limited to dedicated servers. Take the OVH manager for instance, it has gone through several incarnations since v3, all of which were left half finished before they went on to yet another version.

The deal with IPs has also been changed over-and-over. Up to 3 failovers free. Then pay for failovers. Then the price is lowered on failovers. Then you get more failovers depending on how long you've been with OVH. Then the price of failovers is increased again. Then you don't get any failovers at all (KS range at least). Then lord knows what. All of this while RIPE allocations have been static.

Then you have the Cloud services, which were great! But about a year in, you receive an e-mail "Sorry, you can't create any more instances, because we're going to replace it. Hahaha!". But the service that is supposed to replace it, isn't even ready yet and is lingering in a perpetual gamma/beta stage.

The previous VPS range lasted probably less than a year, before it was overhauled with something completely different. I've had a VPS with Linode, that hasn't changed for as long I've been an OVH customer, and is still being offered with the same specs with the exception of disk space, which *gasp* was offered as a free upgrade to existing customers.

The VPS and Cloud services sit on hardware that may change according to Moore's law, but the service itself has had no reason for changing as much as it did.

Planning with OVH is an impassé, which I find less of an issue with competitors. Granted, I pay more for that at those competitors, but at least that will allow me to predictably plan the costs ahead, rather than the wishy-washy pricing/feature offerings at OVH. If I had deeper pockets, I'd simply take out a yearly contract to lock in the cost and features. But for me, as perhaps others, this isn't always an option.

P.S.: I wouldn't mind however, a yearly (or shorter) contract, that is payable by the month (a la mobile contracts). This way, OVH is guaranteed that I keep the server for a certain amount of time, but I can remain paying by the month, which I prefer over a lump sum for the duration of that contract.

wii89
18-09-2013, 12:06
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
I also wonder if OVH actually regret introducing the KS 2G (Big Mac Meal) server, after all the issues they have had over the last 3months and now this post.

Of course we will never see any comment regarding this, but I cant help feeling if OVH could do this all over again they might even not have bothered with such an inexpensive server.
OVH need to release new products to existing customers to see what the demand is for the new server range before making it publicly available.

+1 for the minimum contract to get the servers I say 3-6 months should be applied to any server.

I don't agree with a setup fee.

rickyday
18-09-2013, 11:32
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper;54605@both:
I have paid setup fees to OVH and others. Surely this is the best option to reduce churn, as it penalises those who chop and change, while rewarding those of us who stick with a server for more time.
A setup fee would certainly reduce churn indeed but it would drive customers to OVH competition that don't charge one and Oles would not want that.

If a setup fee was reintroduced I for one would look at competition even if the monthly cost was more expensive than OVH.

Oles has seen first hand the issues that arose when they reintroduced charging a setup fee, even on a VPS where the setup fee was higher than the monthly cost of the product.

Customers do not want or like setup fees, there are other ways to reduce server turnover.


Trapper
18-09-2013, 11:24
Quote Originally Posted by Myatu
Oh Lords of Kobol, we've had those... Not again It should be simple - stop changing things so often, pass savings on to loyal customers instead of "forcing" them to take up the better offers on the table.
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
No please dear god! lets not go down that route again!

The solution is simple, if new ranges are to be introduced for cheaper prices, simply reduce the price of the older range servers, this will then stop everyone cancelling all their servers and reordering, its a no brainer......

Agree as well with others above, don't keep changing prices every week, IP Failovers for instance one week the price was getting halved! Great news! The next week Oles went back on that and changed his mind and put prices back up again, its behaviour like this that annoys customers and makes us lose faith in a brand/company.
@Myatu:
Moore's Law means this is a fast moving business. So offers need to change, as Oles states in his post "regular release of new features". The problem this time was the huge step.

@rickyday:
The IP Failover thing was "fixing the symptom" not "fixing the disease". IPv4 was in good supply, then the massive demand caused by the new servers altered that. The price reverse will not fix the problem caused by the wrong pricing (of KS Servers). So I agree, this was bad...

@both:
I have paid setup fees to OVH and others. Surely this is the best option to reduce churn, as it penalises those who chop and change, while rewarding those of us who stick with a server for more time.

That said, it cannot fix the problem on it's own, as the current (massive) price differential would mean the setup fee could be covered in a couple of months.

Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
Also reward customers with loyalty points the longer they have their servers! a bonus above what is given normally.
A geared acceleration of Bonus points would work, rewarding more and more, making the server cheaper and cheaper... Great idea!

~Trap

rickyday
18-09-2013, 11:18
I also wonder if OVH actually regret introducing the KS 2G (Big Mac Meal) server, after all the issues they have had over the last 3months and now this post.

Of course we will never see any comment regarding this, but I cant help feeling if OVH could do this all over again they might even not have bothered with such an inexpensive server.

rickyday
18-09-2013, 11:04
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
A setup fee however would change things.
No please dear god! lets not go down that route again!

The solution is simple, if new ranges are to be introduced for cheaper prices, simply reduce the price of the older range servers, this will then stop everyone cancelling all their servers and reordering, its a no brainer......

Agree as well with others above, don't keep changing prices every week, IP Failovers for instance one week the price was getting halved! Great news! The next week Oles went back on that and changed his mind and put prices back up again, its behaviour like this that annoys customers and makes us lose faith in a brand/company.

I am sure OVH can all get involved have a meeting regarding this issue, come up with some ideas and suggestions, its not a quantum physics type problem is it? pretty straightforward really.

Also reward customers with loyalty points the longer they have their servers! a bonus above what is given normally.

rickyday
18-09-2013, 11:03
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
I think the posters I have included above would make an excellent UK Rep for a trip to LON or RBX. What say you Oles?

~Trap
Nothing I suspect, I have requested direct from Oles a trip to a French OVH datacentre, to see it action and yet to receive a response

Myatu
18-09-2013, 11:02
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
A setup fee however would change things.
Oh Lords of Kobol, we've had those... Not again It should be simple - stop changing things so often, pass savings on to loyal customers instead of "forcing" them to take up the better offers on the table.

Trapper
18-09-2013, 10:55
Quote Originally Posted by ExW
I add about 5 new OVH servers per month to my growing business, am i supposed to look elsewhere now?
...No, this is all about the turnover (churn).

If you need new servers, contact OVH. If they can see what you are doing (regularly buying new), they will generate orders for you...

At least that is my understanding.

~Trap

Trapper
18-09-2013, 10:53
Quote Originally Posted by macole111
+1 to above ideas from Trap. Why not reduce the server price over time slowly?

Willing to go to your HQ to help you thrash out these issues

-macole111
Reduce over time sounds perfect...

Quote Originally Posted by Corobo
In fairness I've only had them since around the start of last December, that switch was because I wanted to change (2x8G hosts vs 1x16G) from a 2TB drive to 2x1TB drives for RAID and various other redundancy rather than a price thing

The one before that I had for around a year and a half I believe and only ever had VPSs elsewhere before that

I'm not the best when it comes to server churn now that I think about it, but this change was definitely for a discount!
Actually Corobo, I think you are certainly someone we need on this conversation. As I said in my previous post, OVH need to include everyone when trying to thrash this out - "the likes of you" included

I think the reasons you give for changing are completely valid, and may have be solved if there where different servers at the same price point. Example:
£25 gets:
16GB RAM 1TB Disk, or,
8GB RAM 2x1TB Disk

...That giving you a choice, to choose what matters to you.

Quote Originally Posted by JakeMS
...
So what's the problem? You are punishing loyal customers for being loyal and instead helping those who just switch servers.

For example, our bill used to come to roughly £200ish last month, you changed this price for us, to £220ish without any real notification or reason other than "everyone has to pay it".

Now, this wouldn't seem so bad if, it wasn't for the fact, I could get a more powerful setup from your selves at £180ish.. So from a small business perspective your basically saying "Upgrade, because prices are going up if you don't, upgrade to get your old pricing".

We've only had our servers for about 7 months now, but our price already bumped.

... Hopefully someone reads this.
Another +1 to reducing prices over time,

(I always read your posts JakeMS )

Quote Originally Posted by Andy
One solution is to have a minimum contract length. Don't make us pay for the full length but tie us into a contract for that period. For example 3 or 6 months. This will make fly-by-night purchasers think again before committing. Or you could put a setup fee on non-contract servers, or a setup fee which is returned to you if you have your server for a set amount of time or more. I'd happily go with a short contract of 3-6 months since I will always have a server at least that long.

You could also reward people with long term leases with a discount of, for example 5% every 3 months up to a maximum %age. That will make people want to keep their server because they'll get a bit of a discount by doing so.

I'd happily make a trip to London or Roubaix...
I don't think the 3 or 6 months (alone) will do the job on minimum contract length. The KS2G's I ordered were for 3 months, the price does not make it an issue if I only use it for a few days.

A setup fee however would change things.

I also like the RapidSwitch idea of paying a higher setup fee, in order to get a reduced monthly payment, or vice versa. (Yes I also have servers there)

In my original post I mentioned raising prices. When I posted that, I ducked down behind a concrete wall, and waited for the flak... It did not come. This must say something to OVH - no one expects the KS range to stay as it is.

I think the posters I have included above would make an excellent UK Rep for a trip to LON or RBX. What say you Oles?

~Trap

ExW
18-09-2013, 10:49
I add about 5 new OVH servers per month to my growing business, am i supposed to look elsewhere now?

Corobo
18-09-2013, 09:38
Quote Originally Posted by RapidSeeds
How long did you have your previous server for?
In fairness I've only had them since around the start of last December, that switch was because I wanted to change (2x8G hosts vs 1x16G) from a 2TB drive to 2x1TB drives for RAID and various other redundancy rather than a price thing

The one before that I had for around a year and a half I believe and only ever had VPSs elsewhere before that

I'm not the best when it comes to server churn now that I think about it, but this change was definitely for a discount!

JakeMS
18-09-2013, 07:51
Hi,

Okay, so I'm going to try to explain what it's like for a *small* business regarding costs and why a small business would make the switch instead of sticking to the same server.

So what's the problem? You are punishing loyal customers for being loyal and instead helping those who just switch servers.

For example, our bill used to come to roughly £200ish last month, you changed this price for us, to £220ish without any real notification or reason other than "everyone has to pay it".

Now, this wouldn't seem so bad if, it wasn't for the fact, I could get a more powerful setup from your selves at £180ish.. So from a small business perspective your basically saying "Upgrade, because prices are going up if you don't, upgrade to get your old pricing".

We've only had our servers for about 7 months now, but our price already bumped.

The solution would be simple, instead of charging loyal customers MORE for the exact same product, either keep the prices the same, or slowly lower them to match the newer models if possible.

As for the newer models, sure, drop the prices, but do so sensibly, don't just drop from £40 for a SP16G to £30 for a SP32G. As for most small businesses costs matter and if they can save money, they will.

While I decided to keep to the same servers, and did not choose to upgrade, I very much did consider it for the above reasons.

If you want loyal customers, stop punishing loyal customers, and start rewarding them instead.

Well, that's my view on it - Hopefully someone reads this.

RapidSeeds
17-09-2013, 23:25
Quote Originally Posted by Oles
This is not a problem if the old server has been rented for 2-3 years, or if we can re-rent the old server as a Kimsufi ...
Please take notice.

macole111
17-09-2013, 23:25
If OVH expect us to stick with a server for a long time (as most of us do here), then stick to your policies for a long time too. Simples.

Also, if OVH are pausing then hopefully they will listen to what us customers have to say. Like Andy's suggestion, which sounds good to me. A likely story though, sigh...

-macole111

Andy
17-09-2013, 23:06
In addition to my last post, lets put into perspective how long I've had my current server:

Creation date: 2011-05-08
I work that out as 2 years 4 months.

Myatu
17-09-2013, 23:02
Quote Originally Posted by Andy
Don't sit on your own and think up ideas that just aren't going to work. You also need to stop changing things every 30 days to suit your new ideas. Get a business model and stick with it for a while. That is one of my pet hates with OVH is how quickly things change from one to the other when things aren't quite going how you wanted.
Amen to that.

Andy
17-09-2013, 22:46
I've always kept my servers for over a year. I've never had one for less than that because mine is a production server. But the problem comes when a year or two down the line the server is no longer powerful enough for my needs. That's when I will consider changing server.

As it stands now, a single mSP server is half the cost and double the spec of my current server, making it overall 4x better value. So why should I continue to pay for my current one when I can pay less and get more by changing? That's where the problem lies.

One solution is to have a minimum contract length. Don't make us pay for the full length but tie us into a contract for that period. For example 3 or 6 months. This will make fly-by-night purchasers think again before committing. Or you could put a setup fee on non-contract servers, or a setup fee which is returned to you if you have your server for a set amount of time or more. I'd happily go with a short contract of 3-6 months since I will always have a server at least that long.

You could also reward people with long term leases with a discount of, for example 5% every 3 months up to a maximum %age. That will make people want to keep their server because they'll get a bit of a discount by doing so.

There are so many ways you could do this yet nothing we suggest here ever see's the light of day (not quite sure why I'm posting my ideas for that reason but hey...).

I'd happily make a trip to London or Roubaix, or wherever to voice my opinions and suggestions. I've been a loyal customer for a long time now and I've had several servers over the years. I've been on the forum long enough to see the problems customers face and suggestions on their solutions too. Even UK support should know me well enough to see the help I can offer.

Let us help you. Don't sit on your own and think up ideas that just aren't going to work. You also need to stop changing things every 30 days to suit your new ideas. Get a business model and stick with it for a while. That is one of my pet hates with OVH is how quickly things change from one to the other when things aren't quite going how you wanted.

Jasgriff
17-09-2013, 22:04
Well,

I am gobsmacked!

His message and the way he has explained in detail what has happened and will be happening was bang on with what you would expect from a company that does take things into consideration.

It makes waiting easier when you understand exactly what has gone on and the decision to stop new orders of all servers to take the time to reflect on the previous few months does prove that they care for their customers.

chostwales
17-09-2013, 21:58
There have been alot of discussions about reducing the price of servers. However sometimes people really do need to upgrade their server. Not just to save or don't need it any more. So reducing the problem is only going to solve part of the problem.

What about running an auction model similar to Hetzner (I don't like Hetzner, but it looks like it works for them). When a server is returned and depending on the version of the server (i.e if it's current range or old range) it either goes into current product reuse i.e back into available server range for order of current generation (same how it does now) or if its old model, then it goes into auction availability where every 3 days you reduce the price by 5% from where it was originally rented out.

I have been a very loyal customer with OVH now for almost 5 years and these past 2 months have nearly cost you my loyalty. Now I can see that your actually explaining the situation and requesting suggestions, then I believe our loyalty does mean something.

To prevent customers taking out the server for just a month. Make them put their money where their mouth is. Charge a setup fee. But waiver it on customers who prepay 6 months in advance or more. (not 12 months as I can imagine this could cause cashflow issues with customers and effect genuine customers.)

alex
17-09-2013, 21:50
one of my 2012 server had issues, I managed to transfer out all VMs (arround 1.5TB data) and after that the network card crashed every day - almost every hour, as I had notifications about it, this is only one reason I have to return one of my server.

Tz-OVH
17-09-2013, 21:47
Quote Originally Posted by ctype_alnum
You really should read what you just wrote.
I don't follow

ctype_alnum
17-09-2013, 21:18
Quote Originally Posted by Tz-OVH
I think its good OVH are stepping back and taking time to plan their next move. It's better than being in a position of losing money or worse, losing customers as a result of bad short term decisions.

I just hope whatever oles decides, he considers us and perhaps even keeps us in the loop on developments.
You really should read what you just wrote.

LawsHosting
17-09-2013, 19:36
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
Dear Octave
Your say that you want to reduce turnover.
There is another problem for those of us who have pre 2013 KS servers.
We Rented these with good prices, and email support.
Now the email support has been removed, but we pay the same price.
A new server has come along which offers so much more hardware, and the same level of support, for much less money.
It seems what you want us to do is change servers - or increase turnover.
This.

I can't, and will not get rid of my ~2009 - 2012 Kimi's, although I pay the equivilent to a new mSP for one, they're too valuable to me.

However, as I expressed, I do expect a different contract to the KS2013's - email support, ticket support, phone support. Either that, or lower the prices a bit.

Tz-OVH
17-09-2013, 19:32
I think its good OVH are stepping back and taking time to plan their next move. It's better than being in a position of losing money or worse, losing customers as a result of bad short term decisions.

I just hope whatever oles decides, he considers us and perhaps even keeps us in the loop on developments.

RapidSeeds
17-09-2013, 19:11
Quote Originally Posted by Corobo
100% this. The only reason I went for an upgrade was because it was cheaper than what I was already paying and I got new/better hardware as a bonus
How long did you have your previous server for?

macole111
17-09-2013, 19:02
+1 to above ideas from Trap. Why not reduce the server price over time slowly?

Willing to go to your HQ to help you thrash out these issues

-macole111

dragon2611
17-09-2013, 17:53
Quote Originally Posted by Trapper
Example:

Look at my oldest server:
Kimsufi C-05G (2009)
(ordered as) 1.2 Celeron (actually got 3.0 Pentium)
2GB Ram
500GB HDD
(included email support)
...according to the latest pricing this is worth 3 euros.
I am still paying £27.23 for this.

This shows that your pricing is up-side-down.
You are rewarding people who change every 5 minutes, and NOT rewarding people like me, who keep servers for a long time.
Until you reverse this, you will get from your customers what you ask for: High Turn Over.

Side Note:
The Kimi listed above probably had a former life as a "Pro Server".
When it was returned, after 2 or 3 years, it was recycled into a Kimi.
Now it has had a life of more than 4 years with me.
If any server should have got down to 3 Euros, then it is this one.

Conclusion:

You asked for "the idea no one has had yet".

I think you probably already know the answer.
One of the things you offer already needs to change:
No setup fee / No commitment / Monthly payment / Very regular innovation.
It is probably one of the first two which needs to change most.
(There is an alternative - see below)

I do have an idea as to how you could solve this properly.
You should have a meeting with your top executives, and a range of your clients.
The client group should contain all types from resellers with hundreds of machines, to people with one or two servers.
(Of course, I think you should include me..!)
This group could help you find a way to balance Technology verses Price, and how this should change over time.

I am sure there are a few (forum) members here who would love an "expenses paid" trip to RBX to meet with you.
Living just the other side of the Tunnel, I would gladly come.

The Alternative.

I am not sure the alternative is even viable, but I am sure you are already considering it:
Continue with the current offers, almost on a drip-feed (100 per release), to limit the new sales.
Try to continue to do business with ever increasing servers, and ever dwindling fees.
I must say I fear this route will lead to the failure of a business (OVH) upon which I rely.

I hope you at least read this, as I have put in some effort, I hope you will, as many of the posts here go completely ignored.

If you do read this, please let us know your thoughts, here on the forum where they should be, rather than in twitter-speak, in a land we do not visit.

Kind Regards,

~Trap
They could possibly drop the price but probably not as low as the 2013 kimi due to the much higher power consumption of the P4 compared to the Atom.

Corobo
17-09-2013, 17:26
Quote Originally Posted by wii89
Also current users of KS 2012 servers who have the same specification of KS 2013 servers should just get there price reduced so that will make less orders being processed and is being recycled so no need to build another server just to get the lower price.
100% this. The only reason I went for an upgrade was because it was cheaper than what I was already paying and I got new/better hardware as a bonus

Trapper
17-09-2013, 16:32
Dear Octave

Yes - there are major problems, mainly caused by the new offers you made.

Consider these things:

1. The offer price difference between the existing products and the new products was too great.
If it had been less, then the time spent moving changing a server would not have made changing worthwhile.

2. Looking at your post, it looks like you intend to keep a server for a life of about 6 years.
The 3 Euro server was always going to cause an issue, as it's price cannot really be dropped after it "first life" of 2 to 3 years.
The pricing point was completely wrong.

3. Changes to Terms and conditions. If you change the terms of the old machines, the new ones will seem more appealing.

So the proper fix is to correct the pricing, so that there is not such a great difference between the 2012 (and earlier) offers and the 2013 offers.
This will allow you to drop the price in 2 or three years time, when a 2013 KS2G is barely useful for anything.

Think about your pricing compared to the competition.
20 Euros does not buy much in a Deddie, 2GB Ram and a low-end processor.
Now compare the KS8G to this.

Your say that you want to reduce turnover.
There is another problem for those of us who have pre 2013 KS servers.
We Rented these with good prices, and email support.
Now the email support has been removed, but we pay the same price.
A new server has come along which offers so much more hardware, and the same level of support, for much less money.
It seems what you want us to do is change servers - or increase turnover.

So, in reality you have only one option - Correct the pricing on the 2013 range of servers.
How this is done is going to be hard, as the existing 2013 servers (and unfilled orders) will have to be done at the price stated.
From re-release the 2013's need to be at a proper price level.

To determine the proper level you have two main things to consider:

1. What is the life expectancy of a 2013 KS2G.
I suspect it will be un-saleable in about 3 years.
So, it needs to be priced to recover it's costs in that time-frame.
Note: The fee you can charge in 2 years maybe less than it would at the start, so this needs to be higher at the front.

2. How much do you want to grow the total number of servers by?
Growing too fast will cause other business issues.
Pricing needs to be built to control this.

Another way to look at this would be as a graph.
The rent which you get from a server would currently be stepped (a drop each time it is recycled).
Whereas the "value" of the server reduces steadily over time (better offers make this one worth less).
In the austere times, people are trying to ensure they are paying as close to the "value" as possible.
The longer they keep a server, the more they are paying over the odds.

Example:

Look at my oldest server:
Kimsufi C-05G (2009)
(ordered as) 1.2 Celeron (actually got 3.0 Pentium)
2GB Ram
500GB HDD
(included email support)
...according to the latest pricing this is worth 3 euros.
I am still paying £27.23 for this.

This shows that your pricing is up-side-down.
You are rewarding people who change every 5 minutes, and NOT rewarding people like me, who keep servers for a long time.
Until you reverse this, you will get from your customers what you ask for: High Turn Over.

Side Note:
The Kimi listed above probably had a former life as a "Pro Server".
When it was returned, after 2 or 3 years, it was recycled into a Kimi.
Now it has had a life of more than 4 years with me.
If any server should have got down to 3 Euros, then it is this one.

Conclusion:

You asked for "the idea no one has had yet".

I think you probably already know the answer.
One of the things you offer already needs to change:
No setup fee / No commitment / Monthly payment / Very regular innovation.
It is probably one of the first two which needs to change most.
(There is an alternative - see below)

I do have an idea as to how you could solve this properly.
You should have a meeting with your top executives, and a range of your clients.
The client group should contain all types from resellers with hundreds of machines, to people with one or two servers.
(Of course, I think you should include me..!)
This group could help you find a way to balance Technology verses Price, and how this should change over time.

I am sure there are a few (forum) members here who would love an "expenses paid" trip to RBX to meet with you.
Living just the other side of the Tunnel, I would gladly come.

The Alternative.

I am not sure the alternative is even viable, but I am sure you are already considering it:
Continue with the current offers, almost on a drip-feed (100 per release), to limit the new sales.
Try to continue to do business with ever increasing servers, and ever dwindling fees.
I must say I fear this route will lead to the failure of a business (OVH) upon which I rely.

I hope you at least read this, as I have put in some effort, I hope you will, as many of the posts here go completely ignored.

If you do read this, please let us know your thoughts, here on the forum where they should be, rather than in twitter-speak, in a land we do not visit.

Kind Regards,

~Trap

Vmlweb
17-09-2013, 15:03
So how long will the servers stay sold out for?

Myatu
17-09-2013, 14:43
Quote Originally Posted by rickyday
We rely on your feedback to help us refine
mechanics that should suit you and which will enable us
to do our job without having to change the rules
game every 6 months
Okay, then for starters: stop changing things on a whim. At this point it no longer looks as if you are changing things to get "the latest and greatest" in technology or to control orders, but that you are indecisive and can't stick to a plan. And that's bad for your business, and for people who rely on your business. But that's been mentioned before, so I'm not sure how our feedback actually helps.

Thelen
17-09-2013, 14:31
I'm not surprised at this, the constant ability to get a much better deal makes no surprise people are churning to new servers, especially on the lowest ranges.

Frankly you should make the older servers in-line with the new costs as wii90 says.

wii89
17-09-2013, 12:53
You can offer existing customers to upgrade in batches to reduce everyone ordering new servers all at the same time, before releasing the new packages into the wild.

Also current users of KS 2012 servers who have the same specification of KS 2013 servers should just get there price reduced so that will make less orders being processed and is being recycled so no need to build another server just to get the lower price.

oles@ovh.net
17-09-2013, 12:20
Dear Customer,

The server deals that we offer are based on certain principles which make renting
a server from us very appealing:
- no installation fees
- no commitment
- monthly payment
- regular release of new features

Up to 100, 000 servers in our DCs, we haven't had any particular problems with
these principles. To manage growth, it was sometimes necessary to add a limit
of 2 new servers per month. Sometimes we had added installation fees for a few
months, but overall, the model functions very well.

Between 100,000 and 150,000 servers, we felt that these principles began to
create problems in terms of turnover.

What is turnover? Turnover is when our existing customers that rent servers decide to
take new ones from us to replace the old. This if not a problem if the old server has
been rented for 2-3 years, or if we can re-rent the old server as a Kimsufi for another
2-3 years. But with 150,000 servers, the number of customers renting a new server
again after 3 to 6 months has become the majority. And the old servers are becoming
comercially obsolete too quickly.

Today we have 170, 000 servers and since the range was updated at the beginning of
August, the turnover has sped up even more to become too high. The majority of deliveries
are basically just turnover. We are no longer delivering enough servers to keep up with new
projects or new customers. The delivery time for everyone has become too long and we can
say that the mechanics isn't working any more.

As for the 170K servers already leased out, there's no problem to report and no change to
expect. Everything is running perfectly well and we're not changing anything. The problem
only concerns new orders for new servers.

How do we fix this turnover issue?
---------------------------
We think we can find a better way of working which will enable us to deliver servers in 1hr,
while managing 200,000 or even 300,000 servers. But such a way of working requires
serious consideration.

We have started to make adjustments on certain elements such as IP Failover, but clearly
it is necessary to go more in-depth. We have multiple avenues to follow, but if we start making
changes every day, a piece here and a piece there, nobody will understand anything any more.

And so even if we have more than 10,000 servers ready to be delivered (all ranges and DCs mixed up),
we have thus decided to "sell out" all dedicated server offers in France and the European subsidiaries,
as well as in Canada and the USA. Orders already placed will be delivered, but we are not accepting
any more new orders.

This "sold out" action will enable us to take time to analyze the sales of the last few months
in greater depth, and understand the behavior of each customer contributing to the turnover.

We will then put the servers back on sale in limited quantities (batches of 100 servers) and new
principles to then re-analyze what has happened, and so on and so forth until finding the principles
which will allow us to:
- deliver the servers to you quickly
- offer very competitive offers
- increase customer loyalty to their servers

At the same time, we're speeding up the rewriting of the API in v6 in terms of domain names,
emails, web hosting and dedicated servers. The same goes for Manager V6 which will replace V3
and V5 before the end of the year. Our order system will be reviewed before the end of the year
for all the services that we offer you. We will be able to offer bank card auto-renewal in Europe
and Canada. In short, we are making the most of this " sold out" period to focus internal resources
not on growth, but rather on consolidation of our backoffice and on careful consideration of the
mechanics of our offers.

In the meantime, if you have new projects which oblige you to rent new servers, please don't
hesitate to contact us so that you can place an order manually. We have the server stock but we
don't want to deliver it and continue this high turnover cycle.

We're counting on your feedback to help us to refine the mechanics, which must be convenient
for you and allow us to do our job without having to change the rules of play every 6 months
because we have 200K or 300K servers in our DCs. This is basically a good time to discuss
and exchange, and then to come up with the idea that nobody has yet come up with…

Best wishes,
Octave